The Unending Turbonator / Tornado / Spiralmax / etc Debate

[rmcc70]

Congrats on getting to 454 posts Slanter.

Does this mean you now qualify as a 'Big Stroker'?

;)

[jlc012]

Hey slanter this is uneed2know, I joined this forum just to tell you that you have no idea what you are talking about. First off if your motor doesn't take in enough air then there isn't the right air-to-gas ratio which would result in less power all together. Second off my father and three of his friends own six car shops around the U.S. and every one of them have a dynamometer (which is a dyno just so you know). They have done test with all the air intake products but we are just talking about the turbonator. They tested four different suv's (tahoe, navigator, pathfinder, and a jeep grand cherokee). Five sports car's(civic si, rx 8, toyota supra, ss camero, and a subaru sti). And two trucks (ss silverado, and a srt-10). And as you can see there is a variety of cars ranging from four cylinders, rotary engines, inline and v6 motors, turbo motors, v8's and v10's. However i'm here to tell the people that said they didn't work like yourself that they were wrong, way wrong. The suv's had the lowest stats due to weight and the tunning of the motor. On average the suv's gained 8-12 bhp, and an increase of 20-30 mpg per tank. The sports car's had the best increase, the bhp on average was 28-33 gain, and had a 60-85 mpg increase. The ss silverado had 27 bhp increase and a 50 mpg increase per tank and the srt-10 had a 24 bhp increase and a 35 mpg increase per tank. Now did you just think the people that made these products would waste there time getting pattens and the rights to sale there product would just make some stats up. So before you act like you know what your talking about you should keep you ideas to yourself until futher notice. And for anyone else who wants to find out more stats about cars just hit me up and ill let you know.

Listen Im new to this forum and i usually stick to reading not actually responding to them but i couldnt take more of this BS. Let me make one thing clear i dont wish to offend anyone but you dont have a clue as to what you are saying. Slander does. Any object that blocks or creates restriction of any kind in the air intake is going to reduce engine efficiency. what slander stated in his comment is correct in relation to the milage increase and you are clueless as the air is blocked the air sensor which regulates the fuel to air ratio detects this and also limits the fuel keeping the ratio balanced. that what air sensors and fuel pumps are for. this would naturally improve the milage but would have no gain at all in the HP or torque department. I would not be surprised if you or your dad had something to do with this scam. Please people use common sense. you are not getting any performance improvements from blocking the air intake. If you dont believe me do the opposite remove your air filter compltely for a couple of miles ( not on a dirt road or dusty conditions ) and you will notice a slight increase in hp. this is from removing an object that causes a small restriction to the airflow ( do not go around without an airfilter for more than a couple of miles for this will let in impurities to the combustion chamber and cause damage ) the opposite happens with those "uprades", get a cold air intake, (cold air has more mass per volume than hot air creating better combustion) a turbo, (an exhaust driven turbine that forces more air into the combustion chamber ) or a supercharger, ( a mechanically driven turbine that forces more air into the combustion chamber. YES they cost more but they work. If these things worked we would use them in our race cars. Oh did I mention Im chief mechanic for team Tecate WRC. By the way please tell me the names of the car shops you mentioned so I can avoid them in the future.

[Slanter]

Congrats on getting to 454 posts Slanter.

Does this mean you now qualify as a 'Big Stroker'?

;)

I'm a Mopar guy. We qualify for the title of "Big Stroker" at 451 posts, actually.

(That's a 400 block with a 440 crank.)

[sugarrush]

i have read all i could about turbonator and i can honestly say ppl divide to 2 groups...
the ones that say it works - ppl that have one , and ppl that say it dosent work -ppl that dont have one ....so to end any doubts about that i got one for my 86 fiero gt .i know my car like like i know my self and i can honestly say that turbonator DONT WORK ! not only it was very disapointing product to look at ..that costed me $100 (im from edmonton , canada) but it did absolutly nothing for my car ....and to top it all up my gas usage got worst but im not sure yet if i can blame it on "it" or colder weather. i will let you know as soonest i finish my next tank without that thing in my intake....

ps; i have g tech in my fiero ....so its not just going with my gutts ...it just simply dont work.

[DOCTORMAN]

OK, take 2 Turbonators, attach them just as you are suppose to attach a supercharger, one connected to the air intake, and the other connected to the exaust. Would that work and supercharge your car just like a supercharger.....Hope the price don't go up.

[Slanter]

OK, take 2 Turbonators, attach them just as you are suppose to attach a supercharger, one connected to the air intake, and the other connected to the exaust. Would that work and supercharge your car just like a supercharger.....Hope the price don't go up.

Is this some kind of joke?

Putting a Turbonator in the exhaust is likely to be different from putting it in the intake in only two ways. One, exhausts aren't held together with hose clamps, so you would have to weld it in. Two, being made of thin sheet metal, a Turbonator might not be able to withstand exhaust temperatures. The fact that it is likely to reduce horsepower and not improve gas mileage stays the same, though.

[vtec78]

ha ha ha..you guys are really cool. Talking about the turbonator....still on!!!!
Turbonator are made out of stainless steel. They are pretty sharp....

Slander, do you want to borrow my hiclone (62mm)and promised to return to me when you finished your trial.
If so, send me your details on my hotmail.
johnmar78@hotmail.com

thanks.

[Slanter]

Thanks for the offer, but I doubt it would fit my Focus.

[vtec78]

Ford focus is a 2 liter motor right?...the 62 mm should fit...

[smiler]

Hi there all. I thought I would just jump in and congratulate the lot of you - especially Slanter! I was about to be hoodwincked into purchasing the Turbonator, but after reading the forum, I have to say, I was almost hoodwinked!

The thread of the discussion read like a Monty Python Movie - it was hilarious - but at the same time very educational. What suprised me though, was, after all the major inputs given as to the non-reliability of the Turbonator (from some learned - and some not so learned people), how many people joined the forum, seemingly ignorant of what had transpired, wanting to buy the thing!

To you Slanter, your consistency of emotion and views where most appreciated. Thanks again for the enjoyable read.
Cheers from South Africa.

[louhg]

Hello folks. I was looking for ways to save money on gas for my '03 mazda PR5. I drive 90+ miles per day and a couple of mpg works out to be good for my wallet.

I started looking into the Turbonator since google pointed me to the site. I then searched for turbonator review and found this thread lasting 4 months.

I normally get 25 mpg with my mazda. I drive the NJ Turnpike to work, traffic moves over 75 mph. There are many days I hit 85-90 MPH on the way to work. The week after hurricane Katrina when gas went over 3.25 per gallon I started to drive slower. I noticed when I did not drive over 65-70 MPH my mileage went to 30 MPG. That is a 20% increase in fuel economy.

My theory in how the turbonator may increase fuel economy is that it may be working the computerized system to it's benefit. By obstructing the air flow it is similar to me not hitting the gas pedal as hard, therefore increasing fuel economy.

IMHO - to save money on gas follow these instructions - Take the $100 for the turbonator and shipping and use it at the next Sunoco. If you feel so obliged for me giving you a way to save money on gasoline I can send you a self addressed envelope for you to insert a check, money order, cash, change.

[louhg]

I recently heard a report of common ways to save fuel in your vehicle. The most effective manner is to feather the brake and gas pedals instead of pushing the to the floor.

I will have to see if I can find the source of this information and post. I wanted to assert my opinion here is to drive with less drag racing style to save fuel consumption.

[intel]

It is true that turbonator works. My sister had this put in her chevy tahoe a few months ago and the mpg did improve. it went from 12 to about 14 mpg. The part where they say it adds horsepower to your car is another issue on its own. We havent noticed any significant increase (or decrease in that matter) of any horsepower nor have we done any tests to figure it out. But never the less, it will get better miles to the gallon for your car.

[Slanter]

Ok, Intel, mind if I ask you a couple questions about your results? My theory is that in the few cases where this sort of thing produces an apparent improvement in mileage, it only does so by making the engine act as if it cannot open the throttle all the way.

So, my first question is, how much does the Tahoe's mileage vary? How much of a difference have you observed in mileage between different fill-ups with no other changes?

Second, did she add any other changes at the same time as the Turbonator?

Lastly, would you be willing to compare the mileage with the Turbonator to mileage without the Turbonator but with a stop on the throttle that prevents it from opening all the way?

[louhg]

http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/dri...2/article.html

This is the article I mentioned in an earlier post.I am contemplating purchasing the turbonator for my suburban. It seems it could be similar to the restrictor plates used in racing to limit the power.

I have power to spare with the 5.3L (16mpg) in my 2000 suburban. It sucks more than the 93 with the 5.7L (19mpg) I owned previously. The turbonator is $70 +/-. Currently one tank full of gas. If I get 1 mpg it will pay for itself quickly. Especially with a long road trip planned for Thanksgiving.

[Slanter]

http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/dri...2/article.html

This is the article I mentioned in an earlier post.I am contemplating purchasing the turbonator for my suburban. It seems it could be similar to the restrictor plates used in racing to limit the power.

I have power to spare with the 5.3L (16mpg) in my 2000 suburban. It sucks more than the 93 with the 5.7L (19mpg) I owned previously. The turbonator is $70 +/-. Currently one tank full of gas. If I get 1 mpg it will pay for itself quickly. Especially with a long road trip planned for Thanksgiving.

Why even bother spending money on a gimic? Just see if you can adjust the throttle linkage so the throttle doesn't open all the way, if being leadfooted is a problem. You can probably do this with a screwdriver or Allen wrench.

[ART-EDNA]

I have ordered a device called the turbonator and a device called a vortex valve-They will be tested on a 1996 GMC Yukon V-8 350 -the MPG on this unit is running 17-19 -at varing times but will check it close for 30 days and then will install a device and check MPG for another 30 days-and then change to other device and recheck MPG for it. The Turbonator installes into the air intake hose just as it enters the throttle body-the Vortex valve is inserted into the throttle body-will be a interesting test to see the results. P/S I do not work for or sell any of these products -I will set the record straight ! They will work or they will not and will report back any new data on this forum Thanks for listening ART

[JKLJIM]

I have had a Tornado Fuel Saver on my Ford F-150 for over 2 years. If anything my gas mileage decreased. Save your $ 75.00 and buy alumium cans and at least you can get some monety back.

[AlienSpider2132]

Slanter
Since you seemed so knowledgable about cars i decided to join this Forum to get your advice. I have a 1992 Ford Taurus LX Sedan, and its in SERIOUS need of some extra HP, i mean when i hit my gas i go NO WHERE ~speedwise that is~. You know what i was thinking....purchasing that good ol' turbonator would do me some good. But i'm glad i stumbled across this site. Do you have any suggestions on what i could do to get some power? Items or parts thats NOT going to cost me my entire months pay? lol
i already purchased a Dual Tip performance Muffler
and i also went on ebay and brought one of those cheap performance module chips. I just purchased the items..so i hav'nt recieved them yet, but do you know of any other?

~Any one elses advice is also welcome~

[jlcpo]

fantastic thread. they had a very nice movie - NEVER ENDING STORY. indeed, never ending it is.
so, on one hand we have a bunch saying: vortex generators work. then we have a bunch saying: vortex generators do not work. then the second bunch blaims the first bunch that they all work for the unnamed company. on top of that, we have a zest of air intakes added and some cries for "help to increase my mpg" and "help to increase my power".
i think, so far i'm very close to the outline of this thread, right? what a mess, and so humane.
guys, can't we all live in piece? maybe just figuring out our priorities 1st and deciding what the hell is that that we want - more power or better mileage? kuz it just does not go together! or, at least, to the point that you can say - good lord, that's some improvement!
had to stop here and holt myself, i just get too excited.
soooo, why did i decide to stick my post into this thread? because i'm chasing the same dream and found some simple facts, and i'm a sharing type of person.
1. turbonator and tornado are not claiming to improve mpg or power by "easing" the air flow. they are vortex generators. they aim to change air flow from laminar to turbulant, thus hoping to improve air/fuel mix. their problem is - turbulance is created far from combustion chamber and is dampened for the most part by air hose, TB, and intake. different cars respond differently to vortex generators due to the difference in variables involved. stick a vortex generator into the intake maniflod orifice, see what happens then. been, done, works, no discussion.
2. yes, they do offer vortex generators for any modified/aftermarket intake.
3. stupid companies, like chrisler and mitsubishi, that know squat about what they are doing, are next to marketing a new engine that will have "flap type valves" in intakes to "tumble" air flow. what do they know, right? supposed to be a kick ass engine though...
4. for those who yelled for "improve my mpg":
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directo...ge_Enhancement
you will have access to ANY idea ever conceived by a human mind to get better mpg. i do acetone and halo plugs, very succesfully.
5. the kid that stuck that cheapo fan into his intake and then got pissed kuz it cost him 25 bucks and did not give him 50 more hp. well, kid it is. YOU GET WHAT YOU PAID FOR!! the real mccoy is called E-RAM. it gives - and it's proven by dyno and their racing team - from 1 to 2 psi boost. but it costs money!! it's 300 bucks. it's proprietory. what did he expect from a 7 dollar fan?? for those who'll start nagging E-RAM, european union placed an official order for an electrical supercharger for small engines. it's coming 2007 when the cyvilised world will switch to 27 volts. but what do they know, right??
6. for those who yelled "help increase my power at little to no cost". sorry, does not exist.
you can: - very good synthetic oil [AMSOIL], - very good synthetic atf/gear oil [AMSOIL];
-HALO plugs (7.92 a pop, they work fine for me); high temp thermostate; - premix mothballs, otherwise known as naftalin, with your gas, upps your octane [which, due to the lack of proper compression, will not burn right and your ecu will cancel results almost completely]; - improve air flow by: -adding a high air flow filter [AMSOIL, NOT K&N],
-taking your intake off and honing it inside, -adding a high air flow filter/intake combo,
-honing your high air intake inside, -removing your resonator to increase exhaust outflow. from this point on you have to consider: -swtching to larger TB; - forcing air into intake [subaru wrx style/using E-RAM] and that's about it. next step is start adding nitrous [dry kit approx. 400 plus refills], and bolt ons. or re-tune your ecu or chip it. i kinda tried to put it into consecutively higher dollar/labor scale.
7. in either case you will not get a blasterous improvement. it'll be ok, maybe better when combined. but with 4 bucks a gallon hovering on the horizon next year, every gallon counts. unfortunately, the way the combustion engine works, the more power=more gas equasion stays firm and is a trade off. it's either or. so, like i said before - make your choice, and if you want that "big kahoona" feel between your legs when you pass someone up the hill - quit watching your fuel gauge.
8. i drive 02 honda cr-v, 2.4 ivtech engine, auto. car made 50K in yr one. day 2 i drove her at 100 mph. average weekly commute was 1200 miles. fast, agressive drive. not a fast and agressive car. engine is WONDERFUL, it's just not the right engine for the car or the car (weight/aerodynamics) not right for the engine.
so, i looked into how to improve this or that being VERY cheap and frugal.
results are:
1. k&n typhoon air intake/filter. now, keep in mind, boys and girls, i drive with a dohinkey installed into odb2 that tells me EVERYTHING about my engine/trip. so, any numbers i provide are right off the onboard computer.
anyway, don't call that intake cold air. it's not. it's whatever it is under the hood. read directly from air temp sensor. remember subaru wrx?
yes, it gives noticeable boost at high revs. and for the 1st time i could see my rpms go into the bliss of 6500 without cutting off at 6K. nice. but here's what happened next: mpg dropped by 2.5 mile. so i did not like that. i looked into how to save the goats and keep wolves full and:
2. HALO plugs and acetone. i installed HALOs. a) it improved my low range response b)plugs and acetone brought my mpg back to where i had it before: 26-27 mpg. now, mind you, that's off digital and calibrated gauge. so, i was a little bit happier now: i have nicer, MUCH nicer driving car plus i have my best mileage back! oh, must to mention: i drive alone, just with my Mr. Copilot, my SockMonkey AND 210 pounds of leveling ballast AND in very up and down area (seattle). so, on level grounds that mpg should be around 28. i race my car very seldom, but time to time i do allow myself some fun. without typhoon intake i'd estimate at 30. actually, when i just had k&n filter in the stock airbox, it gave about 1 mpg plus.
3. i tried to insulate that intake to keep air colder in it. IT DROPS MPG EVEN WORSE. i did it twice, i removed that insulation today, never again. next is honing the intake and maybe original intake manifold. the car is running fine and i do not believe into disassembling things that work fine. don't fix it if it ain't brok!
anyway, that's a short story of one who tried to combine incombineable - more power and better gas mileage.
now, why this ended in turbonator discussion? because i drove a russian made car with passive fan between carb and intake manifold. and that was a blast of a difference. that's why my 1st father in law is still driving his old, some 50 yrs, car with metal mash plugs in the intake manifold orifices. and that car drives like hell. of course, neither vehicle ever had such fancy things as ecu, o2 sensors, catalytic convertors, etc. oil/temp sensor - that's all the gadgets we had. if they worked. and 76 octane. because modern vehicles are made with one thought in mind: low emissions. and their ecu-s will kill any mod that shows itself on o2 sensor. of course, there's that thing that fulls o2 sensors.... he-he
that's why if you go to peswiki fuel efficiency website, you'll find so much things that you do carb but not many to injected engines. of course, unless you mod the ecu, right? i thought the word was FRUGALITY??
no, i do not work for AMSOIL. go here: http://www.trustmymechanic.com/motoroil.html
and look for the thing called MOTOR OIL BIBLE and read for yourselves. that's besides the point that AMSOIL has the best air filter. and oil filter. i was VERY happy with royal purple, but it's time to change.

[jlcpo]

this is extract from a gm official "we are the best" brochure. soooo, turbonator and tornado are not that dumb, just, like i said before, placed in the wrong place. but, where's the will, there's the way. link to the way is posted after the official gm bull.

OEMs benefit from GM Powertrain's efforts
to make Vortec the most recognized engine
brand.
Vortec Advantage TM
What is Vortec?
“Vortec” is a brand of GM Powertrain
engines that delivers more horsepower
and greater fuel efficiency than comparable
competitors' engines. The name
Vortec originated in the 1986 4.3 V-6
engine that used a combination of
“vortex” and “GM technology” to create
a vortex inside the combustion chamber.
GM Powertrain engineers incorporated
this phenomenon into their
engines to achieve a better air-to-fuel
mixture in the combustion process. The
result is what has now developed into
Vortec Engines; engines with significantly
increased horsepower and
improved fuel efficiency.For example, the 1996 Chevrolet
Silverado went from 180 hp in the
previous model year to 250 hp, while
improving fuel economy from 15 mpg to
18 mpg. Unlike typical engines, Vortec
Engines deliver both power and
efficiency.

and as we promised:
http://www.streetandperformanceelectronics.com/lead.htm
those folks got all kindas stuff for trucks etc. ain't got nothing for my poor honda, though. but their ideas look sound. that's what tornado and turbonator lack - they are too far from combustion chamber, while throttle spacers are almost right in there, same for plenum gasket, or what they pitch as vmax.
now, i also found that there's actually a company that sells . nah-ah-ah, taking that back. i rechecked on it and no, they do not sell intake manifold or plenum vortex generators. sorry. almost goofed.
are we still going to argue about vortex generators??
by the way, for those who read my previuos post: o forgot to mention a mod that costs you zilch and, actually, leaves you with extra parts. it's power mod, not mpg increase mod!! pop your hood and remove your air intake hose. now, look at your throttle body? do you have coolant lines that run into it? ok, after some considration you can see that those 2 coolant lines can be - yes, discontinued. coolant to be redirected into radiator, bypassing tb. you'll end up with 2 lines sticking out doing nothing.. leaves you with extra hose. what it does? cools down your tb. kudos to:
http://www.superhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=126421
like i said: it's not mpg get better mod!!

[jlcpo]

this is a VERY good article on vortex generators:
http://www.fuelsaving.info/turbulence.htm

[Slanter]

Wow. That's an excellent link, jlcpo.

For that matter, the entire Tom's Guide to Fuel Saving is worth reading.

[Slanter]

Here's someone who actually subjected it to a fairly decent test:

The Popular Mechanics Tornado Fuel Saver dyno test article is now available online. While I wish they had more details, the Tornado reduced horsepower and did not improve mileage. It wasn't the most spectacular failure, at least... that would be the ignition device that caught on fire.

[ART-EDNA]

I have ordered a device called the turbonator and a device called a vortex valve-They will be tested on a 1996 GMC Yukon V-8 350 -the MPG on this unit is running 17-19 -at varing times but will check it close for 30 days and then will install a device and check MPG for another 30 days-and then change to other device and recheck MPG for it. The Turbonator installes into the air intake hose just as it enters the throttle body-the Vortex valve is inserted into the throttle body-will be a interesting test to see the results. P/S I do not work for or sell any of these products -I will set the record straight ! They will work or they will not and will report back any new data on this forum Thanks for listening ART

My little test is over with the TURBONATOR/VORTEX VALVE-installed both not at the same time and they both FAILED AS NOTHING BUT JUNK-No change in MPG or HP-went back to adding acetone to fuel and MPG increased to 20.9 from 17 for the YUKON-tried the acetone in my 1993 Dodge 5.9 diesel and went from 20.9 to 21.9 not as good as i wished but my dodge needs a valve adjustment done maybe I will have time to do it this month.Thank for your time Art