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  1. #26
    Junior Member Registered Member
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    where did you find the SSM 17560?

    where did you find the
    SSM 17560?


    .E=BP123]I'm looking for help from someone who might know about a problem i'm having. My 2002 explorer is making a humming noise from the rear-end berween 55-70 mph. When I let off the gas it goes away, but as soon as I step on the gas it comes back. Been to the dealer twice. First time they stated Ford knows about the problem and they are working on it. Second time they stated Ford said to lower the fluid in the rear-end, but that didn't work. Any information would be great.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

  2. #27
    BoomBoomBoom Registered Member
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    My neighber has an Explorer... and I must say... they seem to be having more truble with it than me with my 1977 Jeep lol. Must be a 95-2000 not sure... they got it used though.
    Hi

  3. #28
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    transmission woes

    My 02 Explorer's transmission has just gone out at 55,000 miles. Is this problem widespread and has Ford addressed it? My current warranty status is unclear, so I need to decide whether to have it fixed.

    Thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by tevans
    I have a 02 Explorer also with 93000 miles on it. I have had 2 rear end rebuilds and 1 replaced rear end on tis car. I also have had the Transmision replaced at 49000 and 91000. That is not all, I also had a new drive shaft put on at 63000 miles.
    But now there is no more noise. You need to be forcefull with the Dealer and Ford, they do not want a massive recall like the old style Explorer.

  4. #29
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    2002 Ford Explorer Transmission bad @ 55,000

    Quote Originally Posted by rgeaste
    My 02 Explorer's transmission has just gone out at 55,000 miles. Is this problem widespread and has Ford addressed it? My current warranty status is unclear, so I need to decide whether to have it fixed.

    Thanks.
    Hi,
    I just had my overdrive light flash, and my car wouldn't shift. It was my transmission.
    It is costing $2600.00 to fix. It is a 2002 Explorer XLT with 55,000 miles on it. The transmission place said it was electrical and my pressure dropped and I don't have a 3rd gear. Keep in mind, this is an automatic. I have never heard of a transmission going out at 55,000 before. I bought the truck brand new.
    Seems like we both have the same problem. I am totally out of warranty and Ford didn't seem to care.

  5. #30
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    2002 explorer

    did you ever get an answer to ur question, my explorer just hit 65000, and O/D light flashed a bit yesterday & today it wouldn't shift gears. So much for indicator lights. 2002's have no way of checking fluid levels, like the old days, from what service told me. Everytime I had my vehicle serviced, I would check invoice for the trans fluid level, it always said full. Jiffy Lube said there computer just defaults to full, but that in a sealed system, you would never lose fluid. If problem is electrical, why did it cost so much?

  6. #31
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    I had a 2002 Explorer XLS and my transmission went out at 47,000. The third gear band broke. My warranty had just ran out. Looking back on this problem, I believe I had warning signs long before the third gear band broke. When driving in slower traffic, my transmission would shift rather rough into 3rd gear and sometimes it would make a noise as it shifted. The dealership fixed my transmission and charged me $1500. The shifting problems continued and I reluctantly had to trade it in. It was a shame because I really liked that car.


    Quote Originally Posted by rgeaste
    My 02 Explorer's transmission has just gone out at 55,000 miles. Is this problem widespread and has Ford addressed it? My current warranty status is unclear, so I need to decide whether to have it fixed.

    Thanks.

  7. #32
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    2001 Explorer

    Well I have a 2001 Explorer - less than 35,000 miles and the transmission now has to be reworked. I'm looking at anything from $700-$3400. The warranty has expired and no one at Ford cares. Same situation - the OverDrive light started blinking and took it in. This seems to be a pattern - how do we get Ford to do anything?

  8. #33
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    Known Transmission Problem by Ford

    Ford has a Technical Service Bulletin (TSB) to all its dealers about this KNOWN issue:

    03-25-4 DEC 03 A/T - 5R55W No 3rd Gear/Slipping 2-3 Shift/DTC's Set

  9. #34
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    Unhappy 2002 Explorer XLT 4x4 Transmission trouble

    38 months & 34,500 miles, and a small amount of fluid on the driveway. I take it to the dealer, and they diagnosis it as the transmission overheating. To make a long story shorter, they took too long, so I brought it to AAMCO (my extended warranty service happens to have a corporate agreement with AAMCO.)

    Several days later, I have a rebuilt transmission. The torque converter was getting chewed up; there was a lot of loose metal hanging onto the magnet in the pan.

    I hope this is unusual; on the bright side, my extended warranty has just paid for itself, and I've got almost 4 years (or 65,000 miles) to go.

    Quote Originally Posted by TxPrincess
    I had a 2002 Explorer XLS and my transmission went out at 47,000. The third gear band broke. My warranty had just ran out. Looking back on this problem, I believe I had warning signs long before the third gear band broke. When driving in slower traffic, my transmission would shift rather rough into 3rd gear and sometimes it would make a noise as it shifted. The dealership fixed my transmission and charged me $1500. The shifting problems continued and I reluctantly had to trade it in. It was a shame because I really liked that car.

  10. #35
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    I'm selling mine

    Quote Originally Posted by TxPrincess
    I had a 2002 Explorer XLS and my transmission went out at 47,000. The third gear band broke. My warranty had just ran out. Looking back on this problem, I believe I had warning signs long before the third gear band broke. When driving in slower traffic, my transmission would shift rather rough into 3rd gear and sometimes it would make a noise as it shifted. The dealership fixed my transmission and charged me $1500. The shifting problems continued and I reluctantly had to trade it in. It was a shame because I really liked that car.
    I too have a 2002 Ford Explorer XLT......I had all the usual complaints, the whining rear end which was cured with a new rear end, and now, at 45,000 miles, the O/D light flashed a few times and then transmission completely failed. The Ford Dealer here tells me they checked all my maintenance records and they are taking the problem to Ford Motor Company. A remanufactured transmission will be installed, my warranty will be extended for 18 months or 55,000 more miles, all for approximately $600. But based on all the horror stories I see posted about Explorer transmissions, I think I will take the ultimate cure, and buy a reliable Japanese SUV. I hate to abandon the American companies, but they need to take care of their customers better than they do. To the Japanese companies, a problem such as these would be a disgrace. We could learn a few things.
    Wish me luck with the $600 fix.

  11. #36
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    02 Explorer Timing Chain making noise

    I have an 02 Explorer with 95KM on it and it is making noise between 2K-3K. The noise is coming from the timing chain. The ford Dealership confirmed that it is the timing chain that's making noise. I don't have any warranty left on this vehicule. I am aware of a Ford service bulletin on that very problem. The dealership advised me not to spend unnecessary money on this, they said that the timing change will last as long as the vehicule but will be noisy. That really took me by surprise and I was expecting to lose the Explorer for a day or two. I was ready to put a fight with Ford to have this fix for free. I asked them to put their words on paper but they refused, of course.
    Should I believe them ? Should I be concern? Will the timing chain last as long as they say ?

  12. #37
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    2002 Explorer transmission problems

    I have a 2002 Explorer XLT that I purchased new in Sep-02. I had to have the transmission rebuilt the first time at 4,792 miles. I then had it rebuilt 3 more times between Jan-03 and Jan-05. Last month the tranny blew again. My not-so-helpful regional service manager had the dealership where I purchased my SUV replace the original (rebuilt 4 times!!) with a BAUM remanufactured tranny. I was told the reman's are 'bulletproof' and I would 'never have another tranny issue as long as I own the vehicle'. Well, a short 880 miles and 2 weeks and my bulletproof tranny is shot. I brought it back AGAIN and the diagnostics test revealed 2 malfunctions. One being an 'internal gear malfunction'. I have made it perfectly clear to the dealer, Ford Motor Corp and the regional guy that I want a new vehicle. The car is clearly a lemon and they should have taken care of this many years ago. The final outcome...they fixed the tranny and told me they will not be replacing my vehicle. There is nothing they can do but extend my warranty for 2yrs or 75k miles. I would warn anyone against purchasing a 2002 or newer Explorer as there are known and identified issues that FORD continues to ignore. I am far from done fighting this battle. I encourage others with similar problems to stand up for their rights too. I'll let you know what my lawyer says!!!!!!!!!!!!

  13. #38
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    02 Drive Train Problems

    Bought my first SUV, a 2002 4x4 Explorer Limited with V8. Owned several Fords beofre this one with good and bad results. Within first 7000 miles the Transmission blows fluid everywhere - 1 week later and 2-3 "We found the problem" responses from the dealer, they finally replaced the transmission with a new one. One week later I'm driving the truck when the red warning dash light flashes and the temp guage pegs to max - a (heater) hose was inadvertently placed next to the exhaust manifold by mechanic during trans replacement and burned a hole thru it allowing coolant to leak slowly until engine overheated. Ford fixed hose and gave the truck a clean bill of health vs. my insistence to replace the engine. The truck has always shifted bad - "hunt & peck" is what I call it. At 20K miles the truck will once in a while stop as I start to back out of the garage - problem discovered at 30K brake job - rear shoes on parking brake broke loose on drivers side (both) and only one on passanger side. Loose shoe on Pass side would wedge with good one and lock up wheels when moving slow. Lot's of arguments and Ford finally replaced shoes. At 26K one tire went flat and upon inspection by a tire shop, that tire and a second tire had tread separation - running Goodyears. Ford QUICKLY replaced both tires without any questions. At 29K, the truck started to surge (shake) or thump like something was catching in the drive train everytime I would let off the gas pedal and allowed the truck to decelerate without braking. Even after new brakes and rotors, the problem got worse and worse - now at 34K, the truck is in the dealership for the 3 time for this issue. The first time, they replaced the "Module-Transfer SH" which did pretty much eliminate the shifting issue. They also replace the "Drive Shaft Flange per SSM 16824" whatever that means. Here's my point, FORD has a drive train problem with the 2002 Explorer and we need more people to share their experiences to help pinpoint the root cause and how Ford has responded.

  14. #39
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    2002 Explorer Transmission Problem

    We too are having problems with our 2002 Explorer. This past Tuesday (712/05) driving home from work, the SUV would not shift out of first. I noted that the RPM's continued to increase with no shift. At the same time this occurred, my Overdrive light came on and started flashing. Please note that I have never used Overdrive ever. I pushed the Overdrive button and it would not correct the problem. As I was driving on the interstate traveling a max speed of 35 mph, the Explorer would not shift. As I got off the interstate, my car finally shifted but I felt that I was being thrown forward with every shift. In addition, as the car shifted it made a high squealing. I took it to my local autoshop, which has always been fair to us, and they informed us that third gear failed. They recommended a new transmission from Ford, as they have been noticing problems with Explorer's transmissions. I received the car back on 7/15/05, with my new transmission with a 36 month/36,000 warrenty and drove it to work. I noticed immediately that there are problems with the new transmission. This time when the car was attempting to shift around 35 - 40 mph, I was being thrown forward when it shifted. I took it back to my autoshop and they informed me that there is a torque converter problem and they had to get in touch with Ford. So far it has cost us $2800 and after reading these posting it makes me sick to own this car. It seems to me that Ford clearly has an issue with 2002 Ford Explorer's transmission and should issue a recall. Does anyone have any information about a possible recall?

  15. #40
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    whine in front end

    I have a 2002 Eddie Bauer V8 and it's recently started "whining" in the front end. It seems to be triggered when I turn the wheel 45-90 degrees in either direction. I can feel some friction while I'm turning, then the whine kicks in. After reading these posts, and learning about the problems with this car's drivetrain, I'm getting concerned although there are obvious differences between my problem and others reported.

    Anyone have any similar issue with their Explorer? Thanks in advance.

  16. #41
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    Explorer whining

    I purchased a used 2002 XLT Explorer off ebay and it had the whining sounds when I received it. Otherwise the car was excellent. I had a 30 day warranty from the dealer I purchased it from and collected. The sound came from two sources. One was a bad right front wheel bearing and the other from bad rear differential bearings. I found a local shop that specialized in differential and driveline repair. They had a perfect rating with the BBB and had been in business since the 70s. They repaired both for under $900 and were obviously competent and skilled as the noise is gone. The work is guaranteed for a year. I was quite certain that the local Lincoln Mercury Dealer wasn't nearly as competent or skilled. They couldn't even diagnose the problem. I had to tell them what was broken, and then they offered to repair the rear differential for $1,200 but could not guarantee the repair would work as they said the differential noise might just keep coming back. They were certain the front bearings were good and told me the brakes pads were at 80%. Well, the front bearing was bad and the brakes were almost metal on metal. The only local Ford Dealer wouldn't see me or schedule work for a month because of their backlog. It is to bad that Ford can't handle service needs proficiently or timely.

    Quote Originally Posted by mnelson
    I have a 2002 Eddie Bauer V8 and it's recently started "whining" in the front end. It seems to be triggered when I turn the wheel 45-90 degrees in either direction. I can feel some friction while I'm turning, then the whine kicks in. After reading these posts, and learning about the problems with this car's drivetrain, I'm getting concerned although there are obvious differences between my problem and others reported.

    Anyone have any similar issue with their Explorer? Thanks in advance.

  17. #42
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    Angry 2002 Ford explorer

    I have humming noises coming from rear end . I brought to local body shop he told me my rear end was going . I called ford service and they said well he is not a ford dealer his opion don't count. i brought to ford dealer they told me my rear end is going, its leaking fluid, it don't even have 50,000 miles on it i bought brand new. i will never buy another ford unless they make good on this.i don't know why they don't have a recall on this because there are alot of people having problems with the 2002 ford explorer. Also ford would not give me a extended warranty on my vehicle because they knew i had this problem and i refuse to pay for this i was told it could cost up to 2,500 depends on how bad it is.

    FORD YOU BETTER DO A RECALL ON THIS ,

  18. #43
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    I have a 2002 Eddie Bauer Explorer that has the same problems described. It has just over 60,000 and the dealer informed us yesterday that it needs a new transmission and differential. $4000, and its out of warrantee. So far Ford isn't taking care of it, but I have only been dealing with the dealer service manager (and we didn't buy the car there, so...). Has anybody had any luck in getting Ford to do anything about this if the car is out of warrantee? If they want to avoid a recall, I would think they'd want to take care of people to shut them up about it. Its only a matter of time until someone takes this to the media if this problem is as wide spread as it seems. I can tell you, if they make me eat 4 grand on a 3 year old car with only 60k miles, I'm gonna be telling as many people as will listen.

  19. #44
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    We found this web site where you can register a complaing with the National Highway Traffic Saftety Administration. This is the first step towards forcing Ford to do a recall. Here's the link:

    http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/index.cfm

    At this point I am resigned to having to pay for this mess, but I'm picking the car up from the dealer and taking it elsewhere. Unless Ford takes care of this, they will never see another dime from my family.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by BP123
    I'm looking for help from someone who might know about a problem i'm having. My 2002 explorer is making a humming noise from the rear-end berween 55-70 mph. When I let off the gas it goes away, but as soon as I step on the gas it comes back. Been to the dealer twice. First time they stated Ford knows about the problem and they are working on it. Second time they stated Ford said to lower the fluid in the rear-end, but that didn't work. Any information would be great.
    I have had this same problem which began at the 20,000 mile point. ford gave the same replay and after a lot of preasure on my part and the dealer they changed the rear pinion and barring. the noise went away for about 10,000 miles and then it returned to that same gear humming. My dealer again got after Ford about the problem and after 6 mo. they agreed to again change the pinion and pinion gear. This was good for about 20,000 miles before I returned to the same noise problem, which is slowly getting louder as time passes. An indepentant grage mech. told me that the problem was most likely an allignmemt problem in the manufacture of the rearend housing which has the pinion gear off angle to the crown gear by a few degrees. I have written Ford but I think they jest hope that we problem owners will jest go away. If there are a number of us out there we may have a chance to get Ford's attention as a group.

  21. #46
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    Im an original owner of a 2002 Explorer Eddie Baur. I only have 25k and im having problems with my OD shifting into 5th. And sometimes I get long and hard shift points from 2 to 3rd.

    No diff problems yet but I am very concerned. It seems to those who dont have an extended warranty like me, are paying way to much money to get a rebuild crappy tranny that will fail again and again. I am buying a 2001 4R70 AOD tranny brand spankin new for $1,300 and a stand alone computer with a full harness for $425. This tranny is 10 times better and can handle up to 500hp all day long. The ticket is to buy a 98 and up 4R70 tranny and be done with it. The stand alone computer can be hooked up to a laptop and you just program your shift points via a VERY user friendly program.

    I just built a 430hp motor thats going in my Explorer. A big bore 305 with fully PNP heads, cams, oversized vlaves, comp cams and a 9psi supercharger.

    Due to this im also buying an ATLAS manual tranfer case that can handle baja 1000 race trucks.... that tranfer case is $2,145 brand new. Then I will just get a new front drive shaft for $219.

    Im glad I found these posts because I had NO IDEA about the diff problem. What I will try to do is ill talk to a drive line shop and tell them of the potential mis alligned rear drive shaft and see what we can come up to fix this problem, rather than ford installing new pinions and re-accuring again and again. The problem needs to be fixed and not patched. I have already filed a complaint to the website someone posted a few posts behind. This is a serious issue that needs to be addressed and a recall must happen. The 2006 Explorers will now have 6speed auto tranny from the Navigators... very durable.

    If anyone is interested in the tranny upgrade drop me an email and I can give you information to help and give you numbers and websites to the shops that are helping me.

    I will also be getting a new rear drive shaft, I might as well redue and fix the rear end problem while im at it. My last step will to get beefed up half shafts. Then I will have a bullet proof drive train.

    If anyone knows the exact problem of the diff please let me know so I can see on what it takes to get it fixed correctly.

    I will make some calls tomorrow like to Ford Racing to see if anyone can pinpoint the diff problem so I can take the proper steps to correct it.

    I will keep everyone posted on my development.

    My email is blueripps@hotmail.com

  22. #47
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    well its pretty disapointing that the F@CKIN dealerships wont give me any info. Two dealerships told me that unless I bring it in they cant disclose any info... I explained that I live in Cancun Mexico and that the dealer here is to incompitent to even understand what the heck im talking about... Im pretty upset....

    I spoke to a reputable drive shaft shop and from the symptons I see here they think it could be that the driveshaft is not agled correct. The slope from the diff to the tranfer case or tranny need to be the same... if the tranny is at 4degrees than the diff also needs to be at 4degrees for instance.... if anyone has checked this angle or have any info on this please share... mean while ill measure my angles and try to figure out the problem.

  23. #48
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    Thumbs down 2002 Eddie Bauer 4x4 Explorer Owner


    I have been having problems with my Exp. about 3 months after I got it, but I considered it a fluke. Then something esle, then something else, and again...and again.....I ignored the rumors. Thinking it was dumb luck on someone elses part. Well, now it is on me.
    First, the Transmission. Figured maybe my Explorer was built n a Monday Morning after a party weekend! LOL
    Then they had to do it AGAIN! They rebuilt it, then they had to get a new one.
    When I heard a thump in my vehicle they tried to have me buy 2000 in tires. No way I said.
    My vehicle has less than 40,000 no way do I need new tires!!!!!!!
    Lessee....So far, engine cooling system, starter, alternator, solonoid, several gaskets..too many to name. ABS has been TOTALLY replaced and sensor too. The water pump, the thermostat, external one too. Just recently the fuel pump and the fuel sensor and vapor valve and guage assy. I have previous records of the air bag light coming on for no reason. the wiring pretensioner kit under one of the seats being replaced etc.
    Last week upon turning my vehicle I heard high squeeling noise...any ideas? It happened twice.
    They have never discovered what the thump noise is.
    Sometimes I drive and it feels like I am driving on a rough road like my car is bing sucked down into the road...does that make any sense?
    I am upset b/c the person who has sold us all our vehicles is the one who sold us this one.
    I think he has been as fooled as us.
    Maybe not.
    But since he is a long time friend of my dh my dh is trying to be all nice about it! I told him at this point it is not possible!
    Statutes on Lemons declenes after you have had the vehicle a year!
    Well, it will be a year in October!
    I have a disabled 3 year old with brittle bone disease and I can't feel good thinking I could take that hour drive to the hospital she goes to in an emergency and have a back end drop out or have my vehicle catch on fire or who knows what else will happen next with these new versions of the Pinto's.
    I am not Anti Ford. I have Owned MANY reliable Ford's and have seen all types of makes and Models have problems, I am now however anti Explorer.
    My dh was mad b/c my friend who has 5 kids 2 teens one pre-t and just bought a 2002 E and I gave her the reports. I said if she knew and didn't tell me I would be VERY upset. My kids are precious cargo. I told her she may have a good one, BUT if thing go wrong to keep these things on hand for future reference.
    Well, sorry for the novel.
    God Bless the Oppressed of Katrina.
    DockedSunshine

  24. #49
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    Angry

    Quote Originally Posted by BP123
    I'm looking for help from someone who might know about a problem i'm having. My 2002 explorer is making a humming noise from the rear-end berween 55-70 mph. When I let off the gas it goes away, but as soon as I step on the gas it comes back. Been to the dealer twice. First time they stated Ford knows about the problem and they are working on it. Second time they stated Ford said to lower the fluid in the rear-end, but that didn't work. Any information would be great.
    Bought an 02 in Feb. w/45000 mi. After 5000 mi. the differntial started whinning between 50 and 70 under any load at all (would quit when coasting). Had to wait 3 weeks for the parts because I was told by dealer, "Ford couldn't get the parts made fast enough". Yeah, Ford knows about the problem alright, an upgrade has been supplied but we pay it if vehicle is out of warrenty. Expect to pay around $1700.00 undefined

  25. #50
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    Lightbulb Airbag Light

    This might be an answer to a problem you are having....the light for the airbag is also a seatbelt sensor just under the driver seat....mine started lighting up December 05 and I finally got it fixed June-ish 05. It just so happens that since I'm 5'1" and during the Christmas season my husband was driving my car (moving the seat back and forth). To make a long story short over July 4th, 2 weeks after the dealership "fixed" the problem....2 days later (I moved my seat forward) and the light came back on....needless to say I requested it be replaced and it fixed the problem (the seat hasn't been moved since..so we'll see if this fixes it!)

    Unfortunately this isn't the only problem I've had...I'll save the rest for another day.

    Lemon law...we had a Oldsmobile Alero that the front brakes locked up on....took us almost 1 year we started with the dealership att 10,000 miles and finally turned it in under the lemon law at 30,000 but with lots of dealership follow-up calls...they must look at the same problem 3-4 times before it's called a "lemon". We hired a lemon law attorney online...in Farmington Hills, Michigan and he took it from there he works with GM ALL THE TIME (imagine that!), his payment and the amount to turn in the vehicle and payoff our loan was all taken care of by GM. Then we bought a 2002 Ford Explorer......

    Quote Originally Posted by DockedSunshine

    I have been having problems with my Exp. about 3 months after I got it, but I considered it a fluke. Then something esle, then something else, and again...and again.....I ignored the rumors. Thinking it was dumb luck on someone elses part. Well, now it is on me.
    First, the Transmission. Figured maybe my Explorer was built n a Monday Morning after a party weekend! LOL
    Then they had to do it AGAIN! They rebuilt it, then they had to get a new one.
    When I heard a thump in my vehicle they tried to have me buy 2000 in tires. No way I said.
    My vehicle has less than 40,000 no way do I need new tires!!!!!!!
    Lessee....So far, engine cooling system, starter, alternator, solonoid, several gaskets..too many to name. ABS has been TOTALLY replaced and sensor too. The water pump, the thermostat, external one too. Just recently the fuel pump and the fuel sensor and vapor valve and guage assy. I have previous records of the air bag light coming on for no reason. the wiring pretensioner kit under one of the seats being replaced etc.
    Last week upon turning my vehicle I heard high squeeling noise...any ideas? It happened twice.
    They have never discovered what the thump noise is.
    Sometimes I drive and it feels like I am driving on a rough road like my car is bing sucked down into the road...does that make any sense?
    I am upset b/c the person who has sold us all our vehicles is the one who sold us this one.
    I think he has been as fooled as us.
    Maybe not.
    But since he is a long time friend of my dh my dh is trying to be all nice about it! I told him at this point it is not possible!
    Statutes on Lemons declenes after you have had the vehicle a year!
    Well, it will be a year in October!
    I have a disabled 3 year old with brittle bone disease and I can't feel good thinking I could take that hour drive to the hospital she goes to in an emergency and have a back end drop out or have my vehicle catch on fire or who knows what else will happen next with these new versions of the Pinto's.
    I am not Anti Ford. I have Owned MANY reliable Ford's and have seen all types of makes and Models have problems, I am now however anti Explorer.
    My dh was mad b/c my friend who has 5 kids 2 teens one pre-t and just bought a 2002 E and I gave her the reports. I said if she knew and didn't tell me I would be VERY upset. My kids are precious cargo. I told her she may have a good one, BUT if thing go wrong to keep these things on hand for future reference.
    Well, sorry for the novel.
    God Bless the Oppressed of Katrina.
    DockedSunshine

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