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  1. #1
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    Best way of adding bass with good SQ

    Trying to build up my system and right now I'm working with a pair of CDT CL-61s up front run directly off an Eclipse 3424 HU. But I definitely need some additional bass.

    What's the best, cheapest, way of doing this. I'm not looking to win any competitions and I don't want to rattle the windows of the houses down the street. I just want some good quality, CLEAN bass to supplement the awesome CDT comps up front.

    I've heard good things about the Bazooka EL8A-HP amplified sub and it seems relatively cheap. Like I said, I really like the SQ of the basic system right now, but I would like to add some bass to round out the sound without going crazy with $300 amps and custom sub enclosures.

  2. #2
    Resident Flamer Registered Member -dh-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrewV
    Trying to build up my system and right now I'm working with a pair of CDT CL-61s up front run directly off an Eclipse 3424 HU. But I definitely need some additional bass.

    What's the best, cheapest, way of doing this. I'm not looking to win any competitions and I don't want to rattle the windows of the houses down the street. I just want some good quality, CLEAN bass to supplement the awesome CDT comps up front.

    I've heard good things about the Bazooka EL8A-HP amplified sub and it seems relatively cheap. Like I said, I really like the SQ of the basic system right now, but I would like to add some bass to round out the sound without going crazy with $300 amps and custom sub enclosures.
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  3. #3
    Practical Audio Guru Site Moderator CT!!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrewV
    Trying to build up my system and right now I'm working with a pair of CDT CL-61s up front run directly off an Eclipse 3424 HU. But I definitely need some additional bass.

    What's the best, cheapest, way of doing this. I'm not looking to win any competitions and I don't want to rattle the windows of the houses down the street. I just want some good quality, CLEAN bass to supplement the awesome CDT comps up front.

    I've heard good things about the Bazooka EL8A-HP amplified sub and it seems relatively cheap. Like I said, I really like the SQ of the basic system right now, but I would like to add some bass to round out the sound without going crazy with $300 amps and custom sub enclosures.
    Ensure your front end can drop below 80hz with authority and keep your sub well powered and in the proper enclousure. Basically anything that draws your attention to the sub will offset your clean sound. The bass in a good sounding system should compliment the entire musical spectrum...not overpower it or draw attention to itself. Poor enclosures will make the bass seem muffled, too boomy, weak, harsh, etc. Too little power will likely cause the bass to be muddy/distorted (generally because you are having to turn it up to fill the rest of the system far more then the amplifier is capable of).

    The reasoning for your front end to drop down into the bass frequencies is to draw the two together. It should not be Front End and Sub as two seperate entities. Rather then one solid musical experience. This is also a reason why your standard street system (boom from hell) doesn't fare well in competitions. Too much bass drowning out the rest of the music. Even a little is too much from a competition standpoint.

    And remember...adding a sub doesn't mean you are going to be the aforementioned boom from hell. A sub is crucial for those lower frequencies that a well rounded system should be capable of. You are just not going to get that with 6.5's (or lower) in the front doors.

    The bazooka you mentioned would probably be fine for basic sub needs (considering your comps are powered off the head unit) depending on the volume you listen to your music. I like mine with plenty of dynamic range and *oomph* on the dramatic parts. This requires more headroom (thus more power) and more capable speakers/subs.
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  4. #4
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    That's exactly what I'm looking for -- just a good quality sub to deliver the bass that the 6.5's just can't put out. And yes, I do just want the lower freqencies to combine and blend with the comps, not drown them out.

    The specs for all the HUs in the Eclipse lineup show a low end response of 20Hz from the CD and 30Hz from the tuner. I assume that it's a pretty high quality HU and should have no trouble delivering the bass response that I'm looking for (with amplification).

    I like to listen to my music loud, too, but not ear-deafening loud. Just enough to make the hairs on the back of my neck stand up during really dynamic passages.

    I'll look into the Adire subs, but like I said, I'd prefer something simple and cheap, but effective.

  5. #5
    Practical Audio Guru Site Moderator CT!!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrewV
    That's exactly what I'm looking for -- just a good quality sub to deliver the bass that the 6.5's just can't put out. And yes, I do just want the lower freqencies to combine and blend with the comps, not drown them out.

    The specs for all the HUs in the Eclipse lineup show a low end response of 20Hz from the CD and 30Hz from the tuner. I assume that it's a pretty high quality HU and should have no trouble delivering the bass response that I'm looking for (with amplification).

    I like to listen to my music loud, too, but not ear-deafening loud. Just enough to make the hairs on the back of my neck stand up during really dynamic passages.

    I'll look into the Adire subs, but like I said, I'd prefer something simple and cheap, but effective.
    In your case, the Adire may be overkill. Now, if you were to power the front end, you would probably be better off. Maybe pick up a 4 channel amp so you can power the front end and bridge the rear channels to the sub. But as it stands now, the HU power isn't going to adaquately power the comps to give you the response needed to accurately blend the music together with a larger, more powerful sub.
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    That's a good point. I'm afraid that I'm not very educated when it comes to this stuff. I just know that I need some more bass, that's about it. And the Bazooka seemed to get some decent reviews on the 'net in terms of a simple, drop-in solution without going wild with installing other hardware.

    I suppose I could look into getting a 4-channel amp, but between the amp, a sub, and an enclosure, I assume it'll cost upwards of $300-$400 or so. That's more than I really can spend. I probably should have mentioned that in the first place.

    I guess if I had to stick to a budget, I'd try to stay under $200 or maybe $250. I have a feeling that puts a big limit on what I can get.

  7. #7
    I'm in your head Registered Member CVStroker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrewV
    That's a good point. I'm afraid that I'm not very educated when it comes to this stuff. I just know that I need some more bass, that's about it. And the Bazooka seemed to get some decent reviews on the 'net in terms of a simple, drop-in solution without going wild with installing other hardware.

    I suppose I could look into getting a 4-channel amp, but between the amp, a sub, and an enclosure, I assume it'll cost upwards of $300-$400 or so. That's more than I really can spend. I probably should have mentioned that in the first place.

    I guess if I had to stick to a budget, I'd try to stay under $200 or maybe $250. I have a feeling that puts a big limit on what I can get.
    Maybe something like a 10" JL W0 and a MTX Road Thunder 404, would be within your budget. Just look around ebay and the rest of the internet. You can build your own enclosure, it's easy and cheap.
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  8. #8
    DIY Audio Registered Member ron.eddy's Avatar
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    But in any case, I may have overemphasized the importance of the dimension ratio. With low frequencies standing waves usually will not form. I guess I just got into the habit because of building many mid/treble boxes...

    But either way, If your box is not as strong as the rock of gibralter, your output will not be maximized. Stronger is always better, for ANY speaker (well, not tweeters of course :-). The less sound that comes out of your box through vibrations and the like, the better your system will be.
    Ron

  9. #9
    DIY Audio Registered Member ron.eddy's Avatar
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    To give you guys and/or girls an example, I have an Adire Audio Shiva 12" for my home theater sub and I had it in a 3/4" MDF enclosure (ported). It had a LOT of bass and sounded pretty good. (Mind you this is ONE shiva)

    I recently built a new box, and I knew I needed to make a better one. Currently it is in a 1" MDF (2" for the front panel) and has a passive radiator instead of a port. Its internal volume would be 5.4 cubic feet except that I put so many 1" MDF braces inside the net volume is actually 4.3 cubic feet. This box took more than one and a quarter whole sheets of 1" MDF to make and has the same volume and tuning frequency as the 3/4" box of the past.

    This box, however, is SCARY. I have more bass in my living room than most people even like... I cracked the drywall in the corner of my living room and had to move it for God's sake. But more importantly, it is now VERY accurate, pretty punchy, and especially VERY GOOD sounding. Being that the tuning and the volume did not change, you can only thank one thing: a VERY strong box,

    I realize the Shiva is a much more intense sub than the W0, but considering I went from 3/4" to 1" and saw that much of an improvement you can see where some of my thoughts come from on this topic.
    Ron

  10. #10
    CAR REVIEW ADMlN Registered Member Easy E's Avatar
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    I am very familar with the Shiva especially since I am a Adire dealer and I own a Shiva, the Vamp which is hte car audio version, I own a Tempest, 2 Maelstroms, and Koda 10, I used to also have a Brahma 15.

    Now with that said, you are forgetting one thing. You went from ported to Passive Radiator. Passive Radiators have there advantages over ported boxes. So things are all not created equal now. Especially if u had a bit of port noise etc then the port was being restricted. Sometimes you audiophiles and your myths just drive me crazy lol.
    Thats my 2 cents.

  11. #11
    DIY Audio Registered Member ron.eddy's Avatar
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    I said I did overemphasize the standing waves. I am used to building midrange/treble setups, but it is a rule of thumb for anything above 100Hz...

    All I can tell you guys is that I have had cheap woofers (all I could afford when I was 14) and put them in many different boxes and you WILL notice the difference if you strengthen the box, no matter how much you guys want to argue. All I am saying it, TRY IT if you don't believe me... . If experience doesn't count in this forum then I guess I am out of my element.
    Ron

  12. #12
    DIY Audio Registered Member ron.eddy's Avatar
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    My port had NO port noise. I had a 4" port tuned to 30Hz.

    I wanted to tune it to 20Hz but the port would have been like 6 feet long.. Not cool.

    Anyway, I built the first box with WinISD using the real T/S params and I made sure the port was selected so that the air speed out of the box was less than Mach 0.02, which is generaly considered low LOW port noise.

    My "myths" are based on science.

    Go to http://www.diysubwoofers.org/ if you won't believe me.
    I have also had Fundamentals of Acoustics as a Senior year college course as part of my engineering schooling. No offense EasyE, but I consider it an insult for you to say my ideas are "myths". If you really want I will go into all of the math (there is TONS) behind my ideas. And just for the record, they are not my ideas, they are the ideas of pure Physics.
    Ron

  13. #13
    DIY Audio Registered Member ron.eddy's Avatar
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    Also, a properly weighted passive radiator is actually very SLIGHTLY worse than a perfect port with zero port noise since it has a weight to it (much more than the air the port has to move), and thus an inertia which it needs to overcome to move, resulting in slight delays and improper frequency phase orientation (albeit very slight).... So in all senses, with VERY SLIGHT port noise, the two are essentially identical.

    http://www.diysubwoofers.org/

    This site has most of the same science and math that my college books did. Just in slightly simpler forms and is invaluable if you want to know the FACTS... not the myths. There are WAY TOO MANY myths in audio. Its time to start dispelling them.
    Ron

  14. #14
    I'm in your head Registered Member CVStroker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ron.eddy
    I said I did overemphasize the standing waves. I am used to building midrange/treble setups, but it is a rule of thumb for anything above 100Hz...

    All I can tell you guys is that I have had cheap woofers (all I could afford when I was 14) and put them in many different boxes and you WILL notice the difference if you strengthen the box, no matter how much you guys want to argue. All I am saying it, TRY IT if you don't believe me... . If experience doesn't count in this forum then I guess I am out of my element.
    You also have to take into effect the listening environment. A car is about the worst place to try to get perfect SQ, so even though you may notice a difference in sound by overbuilding a bow in your house, I highly doubt you'll notice it in a car, road noise, wind noise, other ambient noises etc will most likely nullify any improvements that you gain by overbuilding the box. My point, I'm not going to argue the improvement, I'm sure it does make it sound better, but in a car environment, it's just not worth it. Space and weight are at a premium in a car, so sometimes you have to go with a situation that is "less that ideal." Anyway, if you want a truely dead box, built it out of concrete (don't laugh, people have done it).

    BTW Easy, you forgot about your 12" Brahma that I've got for the time being.
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  15. #15
    DIY Audio Registered Member ron.eddy's Avatar
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    CV, I agree. Road noise and everything else do make sound quality kind of null, unless you are lucky enough to own a 100,000 dollar lux car of course...

    But my point in ALL of this (and I am sorry if I am getting defensive) is that you WILL get more output at all frequencies with a stronger box. It is a fact of physics. The more constant you keep the internal volume of the sealed box, the more output sound is achieved. You aren't just trapping the backwaves remember... You are KILLING them. Thats the idea. Take it or leave it..

    And yes CV you are definately right that in a car weight is an issue. I can't argue with that. I would never put my shiva box in my car, thats for sure!

    So sorry if all of this twisted anyone the wrong way. I hope everyone learned a thing or two at the very least. I know I did: Low Bass = No Standing Waves

    Sorry about that error.
    Last edited by ron.eddy; 10-07-2004 at 22:04.
    Ron

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