distortion at high volume - pioneer DEH 3550

[anshu22]

i have a pioneer 3550 mp3 car head unit and the pioneer 5 way 6990 oval speakers in the rear tray
the volume on the unit can go up to 30 max but i get distortion at even volumes just above 17-18. i later hooked up a sony 444 amp that made the output slightly better. i connected the two speakers to the amp. but the distortion is pretty much there at even 20 volume. i know its not the speakers as we tried putting in different speakers and got the same distortion on all off them.
i dont even think about going above volume 20 as the quality gets pure ugly. so gross that u cant even make out the vocals. and its with both mp3 and high quality audio cds
please tell me what is the correct way this unit and these speakers should be setup and wired? i am really dissapointed in the system. and i am sure pioneer aint that bad.
need help guys

[CVStroker]

Turn the bass boost to 0, turn off the LOUD, and set the EQ flat. Also make sure the gain on your amp is set CORRECTLY, by correctly I don't mean "I only set it at 1/2". Plus turn off any bass boost on the amp as well.

[ron.eddy]

No, pioneer should not be that bad. I guess it is possible you have a bad head unit. But first, try turning any bass enhancements off and see if that helps. Also, here is the recommended process for calibrating your amp to your CD player:

Turn Gain on amplifier all the way down
Turn the CD player to 2/3 Volume (20 in your case)
Turn gain on amp up until the point where you can just hear the start of audible distortion
Now turn gain down just a bit.
Your amp and CD player should now be approximately matched.

The above procedure is from an Eclipse CD Player manual

Anyway, if neither of these work for you try bass blocking caps on the rear speakers. Start tailing them off around 60Hz, so none of the really low bass gets to them. Usually 6x9's aren't excellent at bass response. However being 5 ways as you mention the bass shouldn't affect the vocals.

Check your head unit settings is my best advice... Turn the "Loud" feature OFF.

Hope something helps

[CVStroker]

Turn Gain on amplifier all the way down
Turn the CD player to 2/3 Volume (20 in your case)
Turn gain on amp up until the point where you can just hear the start of audible distortion
Now turn gain down just a bit.
Your amp and CD player should now be approximately matched.

One thing to add to this, a sine wave centered at the frequncy that is most often played by the amp in question is best to use to set the gain, I usually use 40 hz for subwoofers, 150 hz for midbasses, and 1000 hz for components.

[ron.eddy]

Hmm, I did not know that.

So if i use 1000Hz with my compoenents I should see good results? What about then when I play actual music and it gets down below 100 hz? What if it then distorts at volume of 2/3?

What you are saying makes sense. Just wondering...

[CVStroker]

Hmm, I did not know that.

So if i use 1000Hz with my compoenents I should see good results? What about then when I play actual music and it gets down below 100 hz? What if it then distorts at volume of 2/3?

What you are saying makes sense. Just wondering...

I usually don't like to use components that extend below 200 hz, I prefer to leave that area up to the midbasses and subwoofers. I like midranges that are vocal and guitar, as opposed to drum and bass guitar oriented (I hope you get what I mean). If you're components go down to 85 hz or so, maybe something like 750 or even 500 would be better to set the gain.

This way of doing it allows for dynamic peaks to play without clipping, and also gives you a little room to play with the EQ, even at high volumes (btw, the eq should be set flat while setting gain as well for those who don't know). Disadvantage of doing it this way, you need a big amp to make it worth it. I'm using 125 watts to each of my component speakers (MB Quart PSD 213s) at the moment . I upgraded from 65, it's not much louder, but it sounds much better because of that dynamic range.

[ron.eddy]

Interesting. I have a set of Infinity Kappa Perfect 5.1 in front and Kappa 60.5CS in the rear. My car is very well insulated and so I don't really need separate midbasses, since those 5.25's and 6.5's produce plenty of midbass the way I have it setup... But i am only powering all four with a Thunder 684 (i think 65 rms per channel??)... I wonder if I would notice marked improvement with a more powerful amp...

[CVStroker]

Interesting. I have a set of Infinity Kappa Perfect 5.1 in front and Kappa 60.5CS in the rear. My car is very well insulated and so I don't really need separate midbasses, since those 5.25's and 6.5's produce plenty of midbass the way I have it setup... But i am only powering all four with a Thunder 684 (i think 65 rms per channel??)... I wonder if I would notice marked improvement with a more powerful amp...

The 684 is 85 per channel. I used to use a 282, but I'm using a 1004 now.

If I were to build midrance enclosures for my components, I wouldn't need midbasses either, but I try not to ask a driver to do too much. I'm all about dynamics, and the smaller the range you ask a driver to play, the better dynamics it usually plays. Extreme example, if you try to play a full range signal though a subwoofer, the bass doesn't quite sound like it could, but as soon as you flip the LP filter switch, the bass comes alive (this may be due to the amplification, but regardless, the change is still there). I don't know if there is any scientific truth to this, I guess you could call it one of the "myths" I believe, but ya know.

[ron.eddy]

Yea, its all definately a good point. I guess I have those four components and thats it. I am not going to get anything else so I guess I have to settle with whatever. 85rms per channel should be potent enough to give good dynamix range. besides, those kappa's can only handle 90rms max....

I have my components in enslosures (of sorts) built into my door (homemade of course) and my rear deck... So i get pretty good midrange. My subs are good from 65 down so they mix pretty well. Still, would be nice to have somethings to cover the 60-120 region better but really in a car you get a nice boost around there automatically...

Imagine having a speaker system with like 30 speakers... One for 40 and lower, one for 40 to 60, one for 60-120, one for 120-240, 240-480, 480-960, etc...

one for every octave and perfectly designed for its specific frequ range. Now THAT would be dynamic if they all had the same timbre (usually the case if the same company makes matching speakers)...

[CVStroker]

those kappa's can only handle 90rms max....

Not to be nitpicky, but there is no such thing as rms max, its either rms power or max power.

I believe the Kappas are 90 rms 180 peak/max. You could easily power them with a 125 watts per channel amp though. Remember, even though you have the volume set to max, the nature of music still keeps it below 85 rms per speaker, it's probably closer to 40 rms per speaker. The speakers are designed to take 90 continuous watts with a 0 dB reference level signal (full volume sine wave). So with a 125 watt amp, you will be running close to the rms at max volume, plus you have the headroom for the dynamic passages, which the speakers should still handle, as they can take short bursts up to 180 watts (probably more). Long story short, you can power them with a 125 or larger amp, and still be below the rms rating.

[ron.eddy]

So, then... That would be 125rms max? right? hahaha. come on CV, don't nitpick on THAT of all things. I meant 85 maximum rms watts (as in, I could go with a 60w rms amp, a 70w rms amp, an 80w rms amp, but the MAXIMUM i could go with those speakers is an 85w rms amp).. :-) but thanks for keeping me on my toes!

Anyway, you think that much? I have heard from other posters here that infinity's are not able to handle too much more rms. What you say of the music is most definately true (85rms amp usually probably never puts out more than 70w rms with most music) but i heard with infinity's that IF it goes over the rms for any amount of time they don't handle it well...

[CVStroker]

So, then... That would be 125rms max? right? hahaha. come on CV, don't nitpick on THAT of all things. I meant 85 maximum rms watts (as in, I could go with a 60w rms amp, a 70w rms amp, an 80w rms amp, but the MAXIMUM i could go with those speakers is an 85w rms amp).. :-) but thanks for keeping me on my toes!

Anyway, you think that much? I have heard from other posters here that infinity's are not able to handle too much more rms. What you say of the music is most definately true (85rms amp usually probably never puts out more than 70w rms with most music) but i heard with infinity's that IF it goes over the rms for any amount of time they don't handle it well...

I highly doubt you even are close to 70 rms during music if you amp is rated 85 rms. Look at a song (with a song editing program, Sound Forge is my choice) and fade out all frequencies that the components don't play. I'm betting the music rarely goes above -6 db, which is obviously less than half power, so 35-40 watts is a safer bet. Which is also the reason you see many people running component amps that are as much as 3 times the rms of the speakers.

And I'm not meaning to be nitpicky toward you. I know you know what you meant, but It gets a little irritating when you get all these "big shot" punks who don't know jack bragging about their "1200 watt Sony amp that puts out 1500 watts rms max." So that wasn't really directed at you, but more that the "learners" reading the thread.