Newbie - Help With Deck, Amp, and Sub Please?

[timwdegner]

Hey!

I'm a new member... and a complete newbie when it comes to car audio.

I recently bought a 1986 Pontiac Fiero 2M4, which had a cassette/radio deck, two 4x10s, and 2 4x6s when I got it. So far I've upgraded the dash speakers with a pair of Audiobahn ABF14T 4x10s and the deck with an Aiwa CDC-X437 (chose for price, previous brand experience, and the aux in jack).

The Fieros originally came with either a 5" (or so) sub or no sub at all. But I am getting a new center console from http://pontiacsound.com/products.html that doubles as a box for a 10" sub - so I'm looking for a sub. Right now I'm pretty interested in an Audiobahn ALUM10Q - specs follow:

120 oz. Double Stacked Strontium Magnets
Power Handling: 800 watts R.M.S. 1600 watts Peak
Frequency Response: 18Hz 500Hz
Efficiency: 96.4dB
PHAT 1.75" EPDM Rubber Surround
Spun Aluminum Cone
3" 4-Layer ASV Voice Coil
Dual 6 Ohm
3 Ohm or 12 Ohm Operation
Mounting Dimensions: Depth; 5 5/8" Hole; 11 1/8" Diameter; 12 3/4"
Multi-connect Lug Lock Terminals

What do you guys think of this sub? I don't want to go over $150 but I want a good bit of power - also want to avoid foam surrounds and paper cones, and I want a good low frequency response (20Hz or lower). This sub seems to fit all my specs, with 800 watts RMS power, aluminum cone, rubber surround, and about 20-500Hz response. Another plus is that I'd be sticking with the same brand as what I've got for my 4x10s. If I get this I'll probably get Audiobahn 4x6s as well. But... I can get one of these for about $100, which seems low for a sub with these specs. What, if anything, gives?

My amp is a Pioneer GM-X952, which is bridged to output a max 600 watts to one speaker (so I'll plug my sub into it). The amp was a gift; which is great since I'm far from rich. I'd like to avoid buying a new amp if I can, but do you think this one will do ok with the sub?

I like to listen to music with the bass cranked way up - it sounds great, plus treble hurts my ears - wanna keep my hearing for a good many years.

Ok, I have a problem, too. I have the amp hooked up and tried connecting a friend's sub to it to see how it sounds, and got nothing. Checked with a multimeter and found that the amp is getting plenty of power from the battery and is properly grounded... but using the multimeter I found out that my deck isn't putting anything out to the preamp jacks! I bought the deck on Ebay, and it was new in the box, and I do not suspect that it has any problems. However, there's nothing in the directions about any special way to get the peramps working, so I don't understand why they're not putting anything out. The 4x10s and 4x6s are connected directly to the speaker out jacks on the deck, and work fine.

Please help me! I'm lost without someone who knows what they're talking about. Sorry to be so wordy. To summarize, I need to know:

is the Audiobahn ALUM10Q sub a good choice for me, and
how the hell do I get my deck to put sound out to the preamps!?

Thanks a lot in advance, guys. I appreciate your time.

[Calinada]

Hey there,
As for the Audiobahn ALUM10Q sub... If you plan on using that Pioneer amp that sub isn't going to work. Here's the specs for that amp:

Specifications

Continuous Power (14.4V): 100Wx2 (4ohm), 150Wx2 (2ohm), 300Wx1
(4ohm)

Max Power (14.4V): 200Wx2 (4ohm), 600Wx1 (4ohm)

Frequency Response: 10Hz - 50kHz (0,-1dB)

Total Harmonic Distortion: 0.008% (1kHz, 4ohm)

Signal-to-Noise Ratio: 100dB (IHF-A)

Dimensions: 11" x 2-5/16" x 12-3/4"

Features

PWM MOSFET Power Supply

Bridgeable 1/2/3 Channel Capability

Balanced Isolator Input Circuit

Gold-Plated Screw-Type Power/Ground Terminals

Gold-Plated Screw-Type Speaker Terminals

Gold-Plated RCA Inputs

Hi-Volt Input Level Control (400mV-6.5V)

Selectable LPF: 80Hz (-12dB/oct.)


The amp only puts out 300 bridged, and that's at 4 ohms, so most likely the amp won't be stable at 3, which is what you would have to run that sub at. Specs for amps can be misleading, because whenever Sony or Pioneer, or whomever it may be, says their amps put out 600 watts, that's generally the peak output and even that doesn't tap the full rms of that Audiobahn. Check out some other subs (JL 12 or 10W3v2 or whatever else) which would fit that amp better, or try to find a cheap amp that would be stable at 3 ohms.

As for your preouts not putting out a signal... I have no clue, but I'm sure some other smart person here can help ya

[timwdegner]

Hey Calinada,

Thanks for your reply. As far as the Pioneer amp specs go, bummer. I figured the 600 was probably a max rating and was guessing 300 RMS, but I was hoping that could push the Audiobahn ALUM10Q. Let's put it this way: I'm in the market for an amp now.

I just talked to the guy who gave me the amp and he told me to check to see if a light on the Pioneer amp is on when I turn the key, and as it turns out, it isn't. Checked connections, they're fine; I'm pretty sure the amp is shot.

Going back to the head unit and no power going to the preamp jacks... I think I screwed up. A friend and I tested the jacks with a multimeter as stated in my first post, but I called him up and he suddenly realized that we probably tested voltage from left output to right, rather than from the middle of the RCA plug to that round part. Anyway, the Aiwa deck is probably fine, therefore, and it sounds like replacing the amp in this case should do the trick. So that brings me to my new question:

What amp should I get?

I still want to go with the ALUM10Q sub if possible, for reasons stated in my first post (good RMS power, satisfying frequencyt response, price, and staying Audiobahn system-wide), but if anyone thinks that's a ridiculous sub to get, please lemme know because I don't wanna realize it was a mistake after it gets here.

The 4x10s in my dash are from the Audiobahn Full-Range ABF series and I think I may go with the Audiobahn Full-Range ABF 4x6s (ABF46T) for my rear speakers for the sake of consistency. They aren't great, packing 80 watts RMS each with a 50-21 frequency response, but then, low-end frequencies won't be needed out of there once I drop a sub between those seats. ;) Will the 21kHz high be enough for me, you think?

So anyway, looking at those 4x6s and trying to find an amp, which will have one purpose and one purpose only: throwing 800 watts RMS (1600 peak) to my Audiobahn ALUM10Q sub (if nobody objects to me going with that one). Any suggestions?

[CVStroker]

Not to sound like an ass, but brand loyalty sucks, and so does Audiobahn IMO. I would recommend something more like the Resonant Engineering HC10. It's a DVC 2 ohm speaker rated at 600RMS. Wire it series to give that Pioneer amp a 4 ohm load feeding the sub 300 watts. You're giving it half it's RMS wattage, but it will still gie you some awesome bass. Plus if you want to find a bigger amp for it, might I recommend the JBL 600.1.

http://www.respl.com

[timwdegner]

Not to sound like an ass, but brand loyalty sucks, and so does Audiobahn IMO. I would recommend something more like the Resonant Engineering HC10. It's a DVC 2 ohm speaker rated at 600RMS. Wire it series to give that Pioneer amp a 4 ohm load feeding the sub 300 watts. You're giving it half it's RMS wattage, but it will still gie you some awesome bass. Plus if you want to find a bigger amp for it, might I recommend the JBL 600.1.

http://www.respl.com

Thanks Stroker,

I checked out RE and looks like they have some nice stuff. From the reviews I found it sounds like their subs manage that deep bass very nicely. I'm having trouble finding the frequency response, though... do they hit 20Hz/lower? That's one important thing to me that is a plus with the ALUM10Q.

One downside on the RE HC is a foam surround... I'm trying to go with rubber if possible, which, with the ALUM10Q, is possible. Also, we're talking about an aluminum cone with the ALUM10Q vs pulp with carbon fibers on the HC... aluminum is better, don't you think? I'm not sure.. like I've said, I'm really new to all this.

Also, there's the 200 watt difference in RMS power... and I do want something that will really thump... as for the Pioneer amp, forget that thing - I think it's shot. So I'll be getting a new amp anyway.

I also noticed that the price on the RE HC10 is gonna be probably double or more the ALUM10Q, from what research I've done. Is that correct? I can grab an ALUM10Q for a total of under $100.

Yea, I'm not into brand loyalty really either, but I figured using speakers from the same bran and series might mean they'd work together fairly well.

So keeping in mind price, frequency response, wattage, the fact that I'm getting a new amp, and material... would you still go with the RE? I wanna keep the price around $100 for the sub. If you do recommend the Audiobahn sub, what amp would you suggest? It'd be used only to power the sub.

Thanks a ton!

[CVStroker]

Thanks Stroker,

I checked out RE and looks like they have some nice stuff. From the reviews I found it sounds like their subs manage that deep bass very nicely. I'm having trouble finding the frequency response, though... do they hit 20Hz/lower? That's one important thing to me that is a plus with the ALUM10Q.

One downside on the RE HC is a foam surround... I'm trying to go with rubber if possible, which, with the ALUM10Q, is possible. Also, we're talking about an aluminum cone with the ALUM10Q vs pulp with carbon fibers on the HC... aluminum is better, don't you think? I'm not sure.. like I've said, I'm really new to all this.

Also, there's the 200 watt difference in RMS power... and I do want something that will really thump... as for the Pioneer amp, forget that thing - I think it's shot. So I'll be getting a new amp anyway.

I also noticed that the price on the RE HC10 is gonna be probably double or more the ALUM10Q, from what research I've done. Is that correct? I can grab an ALUM10Q for a total of under $100.

Yea, I'm not into brand loyalty really either, but I figured using speakers from the same bran and series might mean they'd work together fairly well.

So keeping in mind price, frequency response, wattage, the fact that I'm getting a new amp, and material... would you still go with the RE? I wanna keep the price around $100 for the sub. If you do recommend the Audiobahn sub, what amp would you suggest? It'd be used only to power the sub.

Thanks a ton!

Frequency response in a car means little. With cabin gain, it means little. I highly doubt the ALUM10Q can reach 20 hz. Besides, it's very rare for a song to go below 25-30hz. So it doesn't matter if a sub can reach 20 hz or lower in a car audio application.

Also, you could make a cone out of a petrified cow turd, and it would sound just the same as a pulp or aluminum cone. An aluminum cone has absolutely no advantages over a pulp cone when it comes to sub bass. Of course, an aluminum cone is lighter, but that doesn't mean anything. Read this: http://www.adireaudio.com/tech_papers/woofer_speed.htm
If you're talking about which cone material is stronger, ask Easy about Scottie Johnson's B15 Extreme cones with 8000 watts behind them.

And foam is actually a better surround material than rubber. A properly treated foam surround is more durable and holds its shape better than rubber.

As for power handling, RE subs are redicuously under-rated, and Audiobahn subs are rediculously over-rated. I'm willing to bet money that the ALUM10Q would die from over-powering before the HC10 would.

You should look at the RE or SE series subs from RE as well if you're worried about price. They're all very solid subs. And for cheap power, look at JBL or Hifonics amps, both have a very good power to price ratio, and both are quality amps.

I would say try using a RE SE10 with a JBL 600.1. RE is an entusiast run company, which means they try to put quality before quantity. Plus, if you have trouble with your sub, call them up, David's a great guy when it comes to taking care of a problem.

[timwdegner]

Hey Stroker,

Thanks again for your help...

First off, frequency response... it may be rare for music to hit 20Hz, but I listen to a lot of very bassy stuff.... rap. hip-hop, rock, metal, even techno (which can really hit low)... in any case, I do want the lowest reasonable response I can get, and with the Audiobahn, I get it for less than $100. Why doubt that it really hits 20Hz? It seems that subwoofer frequency response ratings are very precise, so if it didn't hit that low, what are the chances they would say/could get a way with saying it does? (Honest questions, not trying to debate here.)

On the cone: I understand that aluminum doesn't necessarily sound any better or worse than any other cone; what is at issue is longevity. I want a subwoofer that will really last here, and pulp ain't gonna do that very well! The same is at issue with the foam vs rubber surround. I've looked around and found that you're right and foam can sound just as good as, or better than rubber, but it would seem that there is no debating that rubber lasts significantly longer, and like I said, I want it to last.

Even if Audiobahn wattage is overrated and RE under, 200 watts RMS is a pretty big gray area. Do you think I can run 800 watts RMS into the Audiobahn? Do you think I can run 800 watts RMS into the RE SE10?

Lastly on my mind there's price... the ALUM10Q sells for $150-$200 everywhere, and then there's shipping. I can get an ALUM10Q for less than $100, and there's no shipping because I would pick it up (gonna be driving through the place that has it, in Indiana, this summer). So that's kinda convenient. Most importantly, there seems to be significant bang for buck here, since I can get the Audiobahn for roughly half the price I'd pay elsewhere... it wouldn't be a $200 sub if it wasn't at least somewhat worth that price, right? I've found the SE10 to be in about the same price range, roughly, depending on where you go. I'll ask the guy that I would get the Audiobahn from if he can do a special deal on the RE SE10, if you really think that's a better sub.

I'm entirely curious here, and though it might sound like I'm debating to hell for the Audiobahn, I'm not settled on it; I just want to make sure I get everything straight... and nobody seems to have an objective opinion about these things so I gotta ask questions!!

Before I posted here I told the guy who's making my box that I was probably gonna get the Audiobahn, and I'm not sure if I can change that because he makes the boxes around the sub... if I get stuck with the Audiobahn, do you think it's gonna suck?

Thanks again!

-Tim

[CVStroker]

Hey Stroker,

Thanks again for your help...

First off, frequency response... it may be rare for music to hit 20Hz, but I listen to a lot of very bassy stuff.... rap. hip-hop, rock, metal, even techno (which can really hit low)... in any case, I do want the lowest reasonable response I can get, and with the Audiobahn, I get it for less than $100. Why doubt that it really hits 20Hz? It seems that subwoofer frequency response ratings are very precise, so if it didn't hit that low, what are the chances they would say/could get a way with saying it does? (Honest questions, not trying to debate here.)

On the cone: I understand that aluminum doesn't necessarily sound any better or worse than any other cone; what is at issue is longevity. I want a subwoofer that will really last here, and pulp ain't gonna do that very well! The same is at issue with the foam vs rubber surround. I've looked around and found that you're right and foam can sound just as good as, or better than rubber, but it would seem that there is no debating that rubber lasts significantly longer, and like I said, I want it to last.

Even if Audiobahn wattage is overrated and RE under, 200 watts RMS is a pretty big gray area. Do you think I can run 800 watts RMS into the Audiobahn? Do you think I can run 800 watts RMS into the RE SE10?

Lastly on my mind there's price... the ALUM10Q sells for $150-$200 everywhere, and then there's shipping. I can get an ALUM10Q for less than $100, and there's no shipping because I would pick it up (gonna be driving through the place that has it, in Indiana, this summer). So that's kinda convenient. Most importantly, there seems to be significant bang for buck here, since I can get the Audiobahn for roughly half the price I'd pay elsewhere... it wouldn't be a $200 sub if it wasn't at least somewhat worth that price, right? I've found the SE10 to be in about the same price range, roughly, depending on where you go. I'll ask the guy that I would get the Audiobahn from if he can do a special deal on the RE SE10, if you really think that's a better sub.

I'm entirely curious here, and though it might sound like I'm debating to hell for the Audiobahn, I'm not settled on it; I just want to make sure I get everything straight... and nobody seems to have an objective opinion about these things so I gotta ask questions!!

Before I posted here I told the guy who's making my box that I was probably gonna get the Audiobahn, and I'm not sure if I can change that because he makes the boxes around the sub... if I get stuck with the Audiobahn, do you think it's gonna suck?

Thanks again!

-Tim

I'll try to address these questions in order.

Freq Response: Techno music hits low, but rarely below 30 hz. Why? Simply because it was designed for a club scene, where most of the speakers can't play below 30-35 hz. Yes, there's some rap/hip-hop that hits 20 hz (36 Mafia - Late Nite Tip), but even having music go that low is rare. Yes it's good to have a speaker that hits that low, but if you want something to hit that low, you'll usually lose overall output, SQ, or possibly both. Why do I doubt that it hits 20 hz. I don't doubt that it can hit 20 hz, but I doubt it's ability to hit it clean and flat. That's something I'm pretty sure the SE can do better.

Cone: Aluminum wont last any longer than a pulp cone. It may seem like a stonger material at first. But as the sub ages, and wears, aluminum loses its structural integrity. Not saying this is going to come into play though. The spider, VC or surround is far more likely to fail before the cone does, so longevity wont really come into play.

Surround: A properly treated and constructed foam surround will last just as long as a rubber surround. I have a pair of old MTX home speakers sitting in my basement that are older than I am (they're about 20 years old) that have foam surrounds that still look and behave like new. Yes, you can argue that rubber may last longer, but it has less cone control.

Power Handling: I doubt that either sub would be able to handle 800 watts RMS. But I honestly think the SE would handle it better than the Audiobahn. The RMS power rating of the Audiobahn is thermal, you'll bottom it out, or tear it apart mechanically before you cook it.

Price is a big thing though, if you don't want to spend very much, get the ALUMQ. But, like the saying goes, you get what you pay for. You'll have a somewhat loud, yet crappy sounding sub. I say that because Audiobahn subs aren't made or known for sound quality, they're known for being loud and sloppy. I personally think the extra you pay for the SE would be worth it. It's a solid, good sounding sub that can get loud, and if you have a problem with it, give RE a call, they're very good with the customer service.

About the box, tell the guy who is building it to go to the RE site and find the Theile/Small Parameters of the sub to see how it will behave in that box. BTW, what is he tuning the box for the ALUMQ to?

[timwdegner]

All righty,

I talked to the guy who's doing my sub box, and asked him about the RE subs but didn't get a reply on that yet. He did mention that he just installed a Pyle plsq10d sub and Crunch pzn2200 amp in another Fiero. He was asking me if I'd be interested in that combo and said it'd run around $190. Frankly, I don't think that's a great deal and am not very thrilled with the products - the Pyle doesn't seem to be real outstanding in any category, there are no reviews for it online, and very little mention on forums. The Crunch amp is worse, with its model number bringing up fewer than 10 entries on all of the Internet when searching through Google. What do you guys think?

He did mention that a square sub will look great in the box - thoughts?

I didn't ask him what he's tuning the box to, sorry... who knows if he's even "tuning" it? I don't know if he's got it down to that kinda precision.

Thanks again! I hope you guys can reply quickly as I'm gonna be picking everything I decide to get this Thursday!

Oh, one more thing; let's put a price range on what I want - I'd go up to $300 (assuming I can find some decent deals on Ebay or something), but $200 would be a good area to keep it around. Personally, though I understand the value of keeping sound IN your car, I would love to have a bass system that people are gonna be able to hear a couple blocks away. I really want it to POUND, and the LOW LOW bass is the most important to me. I wanna really feel it.

Lataz!

Tim

[Slanter]

I may be a newbie when it comes to car audio, but I wouldn't want a speaker cone made from aluminum. Aluminum has several problems that make it a poor choice for speaker cones. Aluminum is good for applications that support weights, but it is not good for taking repeated impacts (such as being hammered by a speaker driver). If you keep making a piece of aluminum vibrate, it will eventually be destroyed by metal fatigue. Microscopic cracks start to form which will, after enough cycles, grow into large, visible cracks, and eventually rip the cone in two. It's possible to design a cone where this will take a long time, but with aluminum you can't completely eliminate this problem without making the cone too heavy to be practical.

[-dh-]

All righty,

I talked to the guy who's doing my sub box, and asked him about the RE subs but didn't get a reply on that yet. He did mention that he just installed a Pyle plsq10d sub and Crunch pzn2200 amp in another Fiero. He was asking me if I'd be interested in that combo and said it'd run around $190. Frankly, I don't think that's a great deal and am not very thrilled with the products - the Pyle doesn't seem to be real outstanding in any category, there are no reviews for it online, and very little mention on forums. The Crunch amp is worse, with its model number bringing up fewer than 10 entries on all of the Internet when searching through Google. What do you guys think?

He did mention that a square sub will look great in the box - thoughts?

I didn't ask him what he's tuning the box to, sorry... who knows if he's even "tuning" it? I don't know if he's got it down to that kinda precision.

Thanks again! I hope you guys can reply quickly as I'm gonna be picking everything I decide to get this Thursday!

Oh, one more thing; let's put a price range on what I want - I'd go up to $300 (assuming I can find some decent deals on Ebay or something), but $200 would be a good area to keep it around. Personally, though I understand the value of keeping sound IN your car, I would love to have a bass system that people are gonna be able to hear a couple blocks away. I really want it to POUND, and the LOW LOW bass is the most important to me. I wanna really feel it.

Lataz!

Tim

Hi Tim,

1) Don't go with the Pyle/Crunch thingy.
2) Round is good
3) If the guy doesn't know what box tuning is, do NOT buy from him.
4) Again, you do NOT want a system where you can be heard blocks away. this is a open invitation for thugs to jack your stuff. If they want it they will take it. Keep your stuff out of sight/ear range, and your stuff will stay in your car, otherwise, your just setting yourself up. Also, its a good bet other people don't want to hear your music. Its a consideration thing.
5) Go with the RE sub. Audiobahn sucks.

[CVStroker]

All righty,

I talked to the guy who's doing my sub box, and asked him about the RE subs but didn't get a reply on that yet. He did mention that he just installed a Pyle plsq10d sub and Crunch pzn2200 amp in another Fiero. He was asking me if I'd be interested in that combo and said it'd run around $190. Frankly, I don't think that's a great deal and am not very thrilled with the products - the Pyle doesn't seem to be real outstanding in any category, there are no reviews for it online, and very little mention on forums. The Crunch amp is worse, with its model number bringing up fewer than 10 entries on all of the Internet when searching through Google. What do you guys think?

He did mention that a square sub will look great in the box - thoughts?

I didn't ask him what he's tuning the box to, sorry... who knows if he's even "tuning" it? I don't know if he's got it down to that kinda precision.

Thanks again! I hope you guys can reply quickly as I'm gonna be picking everything I decide to get this Thursday!

Oh, one more thing; let's put a price range on what I want - I'd go up to $300 (assuming I can find some decent deals on Ebay or something), but $200 would be a good area to keep it around. Personally, though I understand the value of keeping sound IN your car, I would love to have a bass system that people are gonna be able to hear a couple blocks away. I really want it to POUND, and the LOW LOW bass is the most important to me. I wanna really feel it.

Lataz!

Tim

Pyle hasn't done **** in years in terms of making anything decent. And Crunch is pretty much only good for the cheapest possible SPL amp you can find, not good for music at all IMO.

I wouldn't be supprised if he's never heard of RE, they're not very well known compared to a lot of companies like MTX or Audiobahn.

Tuning a box is not a science, I don't even consider it a skill, you just do it, run the dimentions though WinISD or similar program, and build the box according to the specs it gives you. And don't go by looks, go by sound.

I'm still gonna recommend the RE sub. It's far supperior to anything that you've mentioned, or probably considered so far.

And it will be damned near impossible to be heard a couple blocks away. In fact, if that's your goal with this project, I'm sorry I helped. I hate people whose only reason for getting a system in their car is to be heard from as far away as possible. If you want to sub for music, then you want to keep all the sound in the car.

[timwdegner]

Dammit You Idiots!

I know you don't want a sub to be heard blocks away - quit jumping on me. I may be a car audio newb but I'm not a ****ing idiot, and I know it's an invitation for people to steal your equipment. What I'm saying is I'd love to have sound like what I hear coming around the corner when I'm in my house. Sheesh!

And even if that was my goal, it's my car, so "screw off" comes to mind.

Sorry, I'm in a bad mood.

Anyway, thanks for the response on that Pyle and Crunch equipment. I was pretty much expecting that... And even if it was decent stuff, I knew I could get it for significantly less than $190. Glad to hear I was right.

As for whoever it was that said I shouldn't get a box from the dude if it's not tuned, I'd like to again say screw off. If you feel up to finding another person who makes boxes like this for my car, by all means, go ahead. Besides, if tuning these boxes is as simple a task as you make it sound, I'm sure the dude does it - he runs two audio businesses - Pontiac Sound and H&K Audio, so I'm pretty sure he knows what he's doing. Chances are with the Pyle and Crunch **** that he was just being a salesman. Also, I can't really get a better deal on the box since I'm getting it free from him.

So CV, assuming a $200-$300 price range, you sticking with suggesting the RE SE10 with a JBL 600.1 amp? And anyone else agree/disagree?

Thanks a ton; despite my cocky pissiness I appreciate all your help guys.

Lataz!

-Tim

[timwdegner]

Hey Again,

Where should I look for that RE SE10 sub and JBL 600.1 amp? It sounds like that's what I'll go with.

So far I've found the 600.1, at cheapest, for about $200 + shipping, which sounds like I'm gonna be going over taht $300 limit I set once we add the SE10 sub in there... and as for that sub, where can I get that cheapest? I'd love to browse the Internet forums and such for deals, but I'm not really familiar with the Internet car audio community and don't know where to start - Google didn't help me much thus far.

If any of you can help me find deals on that amp and sub I would be muchos in your debt as I'm a student going into college without much money... why the hell did I choose a four-year private school? :P

Thanks again a lot.

-Tim

[Calinada]

Yeah, that amp will cost ya around 200-220 (sounddomain has it for 219 i think) and that sub is somewhere around 160-180 if i remember correctly (check out their website and give them a call: respl.com). try ebay for the amp and goin directly through re is best for the sub (if they even have any right now). if you can get this setup it'll sound rediculous i'm currently waiting to get ahold of three re10's... we'll see how that goes ;)

[Calinada]

plus... even if you go over your budget, i'd recommend it if you've got the money. because you're new to the whole car audio thing, you're soon going to learn that you'll always want to be upgrading... ya know, you'll start selling things: mass quantities of drugs, your right arm, just to upgrade to bigger and better things. so you might as well start strong right out of the gate, especially because it's a sub and amp and will be easy to transfer to any other car. take it from people who've been there done that, it costs a shitload more to keep upgrading than to just do it right the first time...

these are just words of wisdom, take them how you will, i'm guessing most people here will agree w/ me on this one

[timwdegner]

Thanks Calinada,

And I think you're right. I really want to go with this sub and amp - and yea, I want to start off strong because I don't wanna be upgrading in a month. On this car I'm getting a lot of nice stuff that will last a long time (like a new 304 stainless steel Borla exhaust system, which comes with a million mile warranty) because I want to do things right straight off and not have to go back. I'm gonna be using this car for many hundreds of thousands of miles and for many years....

So yea, now it comes down to finding the best deal I can.

I'm in the market for a JBL 600.1 amp and an RE SE10 sub everybody! Help!

-Tim

[Calinada]

well i'm glad you understand and are on the right track. again with the amp, i'd scour every internet site you can find, and stick your ass on ebay. there's always new stuff popping up there so watch out for a 600.1. i'd call re 1st thing tomorrow and see what they say about the se10. the only other place i know of that might have one is visionary: http://www.visionaryaudio.com/ so see if they have one and if so they might be able to do somethin for ya.

and my last parting words of wisdom... BE PATIENT. don't expect all of this stuff to be readliy available for cheap ass prices, most stuff which is at all worthwhile is generally gonna cost a bit more and will take you longer to get... but always remember, it's most always worth the wait (i was just told today another month for the re10's...)

good luck man

[Calinada]

also, just reading back through the thread, i'm glad to see how much this site is helping out a beginner tim started out wanting to go with an audiobahn sub and pioneer amp, now look at him... aw, they grow up so quickly, ha

[timwdegner]

also, just reading back through the thread, i'm glad to see how much this site is helping out a beginner tim started out wanting to go with an audiobahn sub and pioneer amp, now look at him... aw, they grow up so quickly, ha

Lol.

Thanks!

Yes, I really do appreciate all your guys' help. I came onto the scene thinking the wattage specs and frequency response were all it's about; didn't realize that the ratings could lie so much. So the one thing I still don't get is all this "this amp is * ohms stable"... so I guess I've got some reading to do.

Also, I might have mentioned previously that I replaced the 4x10 dash speakers in the Fiero with a pair of 4x10 Audiobahns - the ABF14T model. Did I screw myself there? They had the greatest RMS wattage of any 4x10s I could find out there by far, so I got 'em on Ebay pretty cheap. They sound pretty good - a vast improvement over stock, of course, but could I have done a lot better? I've also heard that a round speaker with less cone area can be loads better than a differently shaped speaker with more cone area - so should I have gone with a pair of 4" diameter circular speakers instead? 4x10s are hella hard to find now since nobody's using them in their new cars...

In the back of the Fiero I've still got the stock 4x6s. They actually don't sound too terrible - decent bass coming out of them even, though obviously the sound quality could be easily better... I see CVStroker generally tends to suggest leaving rear speakers in cars alone - don't they matter? In this two-seater car the rear speakers are a few inches behind the driver and passenger's head.

Also, on those 4x10s in the dash... would it be stupid to limit the frequencies hitting them so I'm not sending bass to them? Even with the two layers of felt I put between them and the dash, it rattles when the bass they're putting out is loud enough.

I'm a really bass-heavy listener for two reasons:

1) I freaking love bass.
2) Bass isn't nearly so damaging to your ears as treble.

So anyway, that's why I put so much emphasis on the sub in my car...

Lemme know if you run across any beautilicious deals on that amp or sub, and yea, I will be looking around.

-Tim

[Easy E]

Hmm I might have a solution for you. I got lots of woofers and amps laying around. Got something that should be in your budget. Amp wise and probally woofer wise.

Let see I have a 300 watt RF amp that should be ready in a week. I also can get you a Koda 10. Low power sounds good. Cant go wrong.

[timwdegner]

Hmm I might have a solution for you. I got lots of woofers and amps laying around. Got something that should be in your budget. Amp wise and probally woofer wise.

Let see I have a 300 watt RF amp that should be ready in a week. I also can get you a Koda 10. Low power sounds good. Cant go wrong.

Hey Easy,

Thanks! As for the sub, I just told the guy to build my box around the RE SE10, so that's probably pretty much the only one I can go with. As for the amp, I think I'd rather dish out $400 for the sub and amp than downgrade to something lower, so I'm gonna say no to your 300 watt amp, but I really appreciate the offer. Have you got an RE SE10 and/or JBL 600.1 or an alternative that would work about the same? Post watcha got here and then all these monstrously helpful people on the board can maybe look at it and see if it'd be good for me too.

Again, thanks to everyone here for all your help, thanks Easy for your offer... I'm interested if you've got what I'm looking for. ;)

Lataz!

-Tim

[Calinada]

well i forget if you wanted to go sealed or ported, but the koda 10 and the se10 have pretty similar specs for both types of boxes. that said the koda would most likely work in your box. no it probably won't be as loud or hit as hard as the re w/ 600 watts, but the koda is adire's newest driver and it does use the new xbl^2 motor so it'll probably sound pretty damn good. if you haven't already talked to them, i'd talk to re to see if you can even get ahold of an se10... if they don't have any and you're willing to wait for one it'll be worth it, but easy's alternative is by no means a bad one if you want something in your car NOW... once again be patient, but if the wait for the se10 is anything rediculous, i'd look a little more seriously at the koda.

[timwdegner]

well i forget if you wanted to go sealed or ported, but the koda 10 and the se10 have pretty similar specs for both types of boxes. that said the koda would most likely work in your box. no it probably won't be as loud or hit as hard as the re w/ 600 watts, but the koda is adire's newest driver and it does use the new xbl^2 motor so it'll probably sound pretty damn good. if you haven't already talked to them, i'd talk to re to see if you can even get ahold of an se10... if they don't have any and you're willing to wait for one it'll be worth it, but easy's alternative is by no means a bad one if you want something in your car NOW... once again be patient, but if the wait for the se10 is anything rediculous, i'd look a little more seriously at the koda.

Hey Calinada,

Check out http://pontiacsound.com/products.html cuz I'm not sure if the box is ported or sealed.... but I'm pretty sure it's sealed.

I'll go contact the RE guys from their site now... I'd be willing to wait for a while, so long as I can have my new sub in before I go to college in August. I have a couple friends around here who'd like to hear the system when it's all set up, so it'd be nice to get the sub by late summer. However, I'm gonna be gone all of June (starting tomorrow morning) and much of July will be too busy for me to worry about it, so waiting is no problem.

Thanks!!

Tim

[CVStroker]

Dammit You Idiots!

I know you don't want a sub to be heard blocks away - quit jumping on me. I may be a car audio newb but I'm not a ****ing idiot, and I know it's an invitation for people to steal your equipment. What I'm saying is I'd love to have sound like what I hear coming around the corner when I'm in my house. Sheesh!

And even if that was my goal, it's my car, so "screw off" comes to mind.

Sorry, I'm in a bad mood.

Anyway, thanks for the response on that Pyle and Crunch equipment. I was pretty much expecting that... And even if it was decent stuff, I knew I could get it for significantly less than $190. Glad to hear I was right.

As for whoever it was that said I shouldn't get a box from the dude if it's not tuned, I'd like to again say screw off. If you feel up to finding another person who makes boxes like this for my car, by all means, go ahead. Besides, if tuning these boxes is as simple a task as you make it sound, I'm sure the dude does it - he runs two audio businesses - Pontiac Sound and H&K Audio, so I'm pretty sure he knows what he's doing. Chances are with the Pyle and Crunch **** that he was just being a salesman. Also, I can't really get a better deal on the box since I'm getting it free from him.

So CV, assuming a $200-$300 price range, you sticking with suggesting the RE SE10 with a JBL 600.1 amp? And anyone else agree/disagree?

Thanks a ton; despite my cocky pissiness I appreciate all your help guys.

Lataz!

-Tim

Sorry if I came off like an ass about the whole being heard outside of the car thing. It's not the advertising for people to jack your stuff that gets to me. Time for me to sound like an ass again, but I could really care less if your stuff got stolen. I'm coming more from a legal standpoint. The cops in this area are really starting to crack down on car audio systems, and I don't want to help people who's only intention is to be heard from as far away as possible. That's just going to make it harder for me to enjoy my music. There is a county in Ohio that has passed a law making it legal for the police to confiscate systems and destroy them, and they don't even have to be heard. I don't want that to happen to me.

But, back to the topic at hand. Concerning the box. What I was trying to say was, if he doesn't know what he's doing when tuning a box, don't get it from him. I never said he didn't know what he was doing. If he's porting it, a tuning of 32 hz sounds like a good place to start to me. If it's sealed, the only way you can tune them is by changing the box size, and that sounds pretty set.

Yes, I'm still saying go for the SE10 and 600.1, but don't make them your final choice until you know what Easy has to offer, he has a lot of nice stuff that would work perfectly for you. I'm betting that a Koda10 off the 300 watt RF amp would be close to as loud as the SE10, and probably sound much better, but that will also cost you more.

As for the speakers, if you like the sound, that's all that really matters. Wouldn't have been my choice, but I'm really picky as well. I don't like non-round speakers, but thats me. As with most Audiobahn products, that RMS rating is probably a little inflated. If you can, cut off the frequencies below 120 hz or so, you don't need your speakers in the dash reproducing the same sound as the sub. Since you have a two-seater, that would be all the more reason to actually remove the rear speakers. The point of imaging is to get as close to concert sound as possible (within reason, you don't want to go for the metal concert sound, you can get that by cranking the stock system to the max and distorting everything, but that's beside the point). At a concert, how much of the actual sound is coming from behind you? If it was possible, everyone would try mounting the sub in front of you or next to you like in your car, but for most people, that's not feasible.