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  1. #26
    SeNiOr MeMbEr!!! Registered Member nastynas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KirK View Post
    Purchased the Harmon Kardon HK 3770 today from Crutchfield; it's estimated delivery is July 29 at my new address. When the time comes in 2015, I'll pick up some Polk floor standers to tap into the 120 W RMS reserve for each channel. Looks like it has a single pair of pre-amp outputs which is not that of a big deal for me. All I really need is one pair for the Zapco's I'll be running. I guess I was confusing the pre-amps on the HK with some specs on another HT receiver I was observing. Nonetheless, the USB input is a nice feature for my iPod and USB drives.

    Instead of the dual 2 Ohm version I'll get the dual 4 Ohm version of the RE Audio XXX. The RE Audio XXX v2 12 D4 will have some cleaner output at 2 Ohms than running the voice coil at 1 Ohm with the dual 2 Ohm version. This alternative gives me an excuse to pick up the DC-1101 this fall, which will power future equipment in 2015 or 2016. The DC-110 is most likely not going to extract much performance from the REA XXX, but the Z-3KD and ZX-500.2 are a little outside my budget; the DC-1101 being just within budget.

    I figure mid to late 2015 I'll pick up a nice video camera for a subsequent YouTube channel. By then, I most likely will be employed so budget shouldn't be too much of an issue for buying a nice professional low frequency mic to prevent any sloppy choppy bass recordings.

    I'll post some images when the unit arrives.
    Hey Kirk,

    Moving between car and home audio is confusing the hell out of me lol. I have the V4 XXX which is a dual 2ohm sub so plays at 1ohm or 4ohm. However, my Zapco C2K9.0 is the 2ohm version so in order to get more SQ from my sub bass, i wired the sub at 4ohm and ran it like that with my 9.0.

    It gave it a 3db reduction taking it from 2k rms to 1k rms but the bass was definitely more SQ this way around .

    Anyway, the DC-110 should really hammer your XXX as (If I'm not mistaken) your sub is 1kw rms? It is also much more efficient then the newer model XXX that I have and mine was quite happy with 1kw.

    I believe the older XXXs such as the one you have are fine from 500wrms onwards. Happy days

    Anyway, I may need to hold of my car audio dreams for some time as I have recently (can't think of an excuse why atm), purchased a 2002 Mercedes S Class 320 cdi and it's a bit of a nightmare to work with.

    God knows what i was thinking...

    If I have confused your home audio thread with car audio and made a hash of everything, let me know tomorrow, it's very late here lol.
    ''these Over-night Wonder, Self Proclaimed Audio Guru's who think x number of years of being enamored with their own perception of audio actually accounts for 'knowledge'... '' Kirk

  2. #27
    The Nonconformist Registered Member KirK's Avatar
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    Hey Nas,

    Thank you for being honest, LOL.

    I'll be running the car audio equipment; Zapco DC-1101, RE Audio XXX 12 D4, and a future JL Audio 12W7v2-3 off of a power inverter to go from alternating to direct current. Surprisingly, they're relatively inexpensive. I'm aiming at one in the neighborhood of 2500 W RMS if I ever plan to pick up an amplifier with 2 kW RMS; perhaps, Zapco might contrive something similar to the C2K 9.0X sometime in the next couple years. On occasion, I'll run two DC-1101's off the inverter.

    Basically, this is identical to what we're all accustomed to interacting with in car audio retailers and shops; they use inverters and relays to power the equipment in the building. Aesthetically, this route isn't as 'tight' (or aesthetically pleasing) as home audio, but ever since I turned 13 I've cared very little about aesthetics. I'm an engineer so I always put function before aesthetics. Anyway, a video is worth a trillion words so if you're curious as to what I've been discussing in the thread, go to Google, click on the icon for YouTube/Videos, type in 'RE Audio Zapco Subwoofer Explosion' in the search bar, and there's a nice vid of a PC system with a Zap amp fed by a power inverter powering a nice RE Audio XXX 15 D4.

    Thus far, I picked up a Harman Kardon to power some future Polk floor standers and to put out an rca signal to the amplifiers. Unbknowns to me, the pre-amp output is for one rca cable so I'll pick up an adaptor/box to go from one cable to the two rca cables needed for the amplifier.

    I'll be picking up the RE Audio XXX 12 D4 from Sonic Electronix late in August. I'm steering clear of Woofers Etc for Zap amps and am going with Creative Car Audio in Orlando to acquire the DC-1101.

    Anyway, thanks for enlightening me Nas with how the XXX works on 1000 W RMS. I'll aim at acquiring the DC-1101 sometime in September.

    Take care Nas!
    Democracy is a Hypocrisy.

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  3. #28
    The Nonconformist Registered Member KirK's Avatar
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    Before I lose my connection, here's a quick image of the receiver.

    Name:  HK 3770.jpg
Views: 180
Size:  137.0 KB

    Looks like the DC-1101 isn't the only equipment that has DSP; sweet! The RCA Y-adapter should be here next week.
    Democracy is a Hypocrisy.

    -Malcolm X

  4. #29
    The Nonconformist Registered Member KirK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KirK View Post
    Hey Nas,

    Thank you for being honest, LOL.

    I'll be running the car audio equipment; Zapco DC-1101, RE Audio XXX 12 D4, and a future JL Audio 12W7v2-3 off of a power inverter to go from alternating to direct current. Surprisingly, they're relatively inexpensive. I'm aiming at one in the neighborhood of 2500 W RMS if I ever plan to pick up an amplifier with 2 kW RMS; perhaps, Zapco might contrive something similar to the C2K 9.0X sometime in the next couple years. On occasion, I'll run two DC-1101's off the inverter.
    Whoops ... I meant power supply; I've always mistaken them as inverters. Sh*t, good thing I haven't bought anything yet, LOL!
    Democracy is a Hypocrisy.

    -Malcolm X

  5. #30
    The Nonconformist Registered Member KirK's Avatar
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    Hmmm...

    Hmmm ... Been contemplating ... a RE Audio XX v2 12 D4 would probably give me some gain in output if I ran the DC-1101...

    As for the power supply, I might put that off until I'm 3 months into my profession. I'm reluctant to wire several PC PUI's in series; with my lack of an EE background I'm bound to burn something up. Fortunately, San Diego's got some nice local stores where I can pick up a AC DC power supply that fits my application. Realistically, maybe I'll aim for 1500 W RMS and I = 150 A. Been looking at the higher ups like 2500, 3300, 5000 W and I > 200 A; they're a little steep...

    Striking out on finding the BL Product and Xmax for the XX, but knowing they're 1500 W RMS, I'd estimate Xmax > 30 mm and 18 T*m < Bl < 19 T*m given that its marginally smaller than the XXX. Could very well be the better investment for the power I have in mind. I can save some $ too.
    Democracy is a Hypocrisy.

    -Malcolm X

  6. #31
    The Nonconformist Registered Member KirK's Avatar
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    After some intense searching ...
    Xmax = 38 mm

    SWEET! That's up there with the CV Strokers, but I'm sure the Bl product on the RE is higher than the Stroker. All things equal, prob 18 to 19 Tm like the XXX.
    Last edited by KirK; 08-04-2014 at 06:33.
    Democracy is a Hypocrisy.

    -Malcolm X

  7. #32
    The Nonconformist Registered Member KirK's Avatar
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    Y Adapter's here!

    Here's the Y Adapter ...

    Name:  Y Adapter.jpg
Views: 176
Size:  170.9 KB

    If memory serves me correct, some guy at Cash Converters in Bricktown enlightenened me about AC DC Converters all the way back in 2002. At the time, I was ignorantly powering two flee market ten's in a bandpass off of a cheap $50 Sony stereo receiver completely unaware of the impedance mismatch between the two electronics (8 Ohm receiver and two 4 Ohm SVC subs in parallel). Then, 12 years later in March 2014 I just remembered the idea about the converters, but got converters mixed up with inverters, LOL.

    I'm gonna spring for a hefty 5000 W, 250 A converter. I got a quote, it's about $5k; I'll put something like 50 - 66% down and put the rest on credit. I'll aim around 2 months into the profession for that to transpire. I just like the extra headroom in the likely event I want to run something more powerful down the road.
    Democracy is a Hypocrisy.

    -Malcolm X

  8. #33
    The Nonconformist Registered Member KirK's Avatar
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    RCA Cables & Adapters

    On the left is the RCA I will run from the sub pre-out on the H/K to the DC-1101. On the right is a Headphone Jack to RCA adapter so I can link my Lenovo to the H/K and have a pretty bad ass PC audio system on occasion.

    Name:  RCA cable and Headphone to RCA cable.jpg
Views: 176
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    I should have a temp setup by March or April next year. Before I buy the power converter, I'll have a charger on a battery and the battery feeding the DC-1101. I'm looking into power supplies from either TDK Lambda Genesys or AMETEK; luckily they have some locations I can go to in person in San Diego. I originally said a 1 kW subwoofer system is what I was going for so I'll take aim at any PSU that is 230 to 240VAC, single phase, 150A on the DC side, and, hopefully, output DC voltage that I can program down to the tenths so I can manually input 14.4VDC and get the RMS I want. I've been requesting quotes; its around $3k-ish, which is okay once I am in CE for a couple months. Not having any luck with finding a PS with 250A DC, single phase, and 230VAC to 240VAC. In the meantime, the XX v2 is as good as mine at the end of the month. At the very least, I can take some images relatively early next year. The video res sucks with my Powershot, but oh well. Most likely going to have to delay the vid cam and mic until the end of 2015 or the beginning of 2016. Planning on paying 50 to 66% down with the converter and putting the rest on credit when the time comes.

    Not only did Robin Williams die yesterday; my Uncle Stevie Morey passed as well. My Uncle Steve was really gifted with carving and painting decoys. Before I began my elementary education way back in '89, I used to be OC with watching hummingbirds. My brother and I asked if he could paint some decoy hummingbirds my father had made. In the end, the decoys looked spot on and often confused the usual fair of Ruby Throated hummers that came to the feeder. But, I sorta had to abandon that instance of OCD from the 90's onward because of school. Nonetheless, I am thankful for having Uncle Stevie Morey in my life.

    I'll always remember Robin Williams in Mrs. Doubtfire; that's a classic. The first time he's cooking as Mrs. Doubtfire in the Hilliard residence gets me everytime; "My first day as a woman and I am already having hot flashes ... Cough!". To this very day I still am in complete hysterics with that scene of Mrs. Doubtfire. Robin Williams was a comedic genius right up there with Rodney Dangerfield; but I'll always think of him as a comedic legend.

    Having Asperger's, I can completely empathize with Williams bout with depression and the onslaught of suicidal ruminations that accompanies it. It's a damn shame alcohol is so readily available; it worsens depression. Ironic that the Media almost never investigates the dangers of alcohol and caffeine and is so hell bent on investigating the dangers of marijuana ... SFM ...
    Last edited by KirK; 08-13-2014 at 06:16.
    Democracy is a Hypocrisy.

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  9. #34
    The Nonconformist Registered Member KirK's Avatar
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    After days of obsessing as to whether I should go Power Amplifier or Power Converter / Mobile Amplifier I probably unreasonably wanted to spring for the latter. It WILL be expensive but I'm starting to accumulate some mobile equipment now and just think there would be versatility in the converter route. Plus, CE has about the best employment prospects after graduation so the converter shouldn't be too far out of reach...

    I've been interested in obtaining the Zapco DC-1101, but am putting it off until sometime in the next couple of years so I can visit a SoCal Zap dealer and they can calibrate the DC-1101 for me. Back in 2009 when I first bought my Audi, I went too crazy adjusting the DSP on my Eclipse and burnt up the alternator; when I bought the A6, it had like 95k mi on it so I guess the alt didn't have too much further to go. Lesson learned, Valeo + Heat = Bad. The Zap dealer most likely will have some professional installation equipment that would likely expedite the process of setting the input sensitivity and the phase. I'll use the DC in a new Audi once I can contact Iraggi about a custom HO Alternator; my emails seem to not get responses so I guess I'll try calling when the time comes.

    To this day, I'm NOT 100% sure how to adjust phase. From my General Physics course, I know there's this awkward parametric argument for the sine function; something like...

    kx - wt + p, where p is phase

    k is wave number, x is displacement and is a parametric function of t, w should actually be omega; angular freq, and t is time. kx, as far as I know is simply an angle (radians or degrees) and the fact that its variable means some arbitrary angle to the right. wt turns out to be an angle and traces out the sine function from the left of kx since t > 0. But... phase p... One of my former math professors once said with conics like parabolas, if you encounter x + a in the square function, the Cartesian plane it sits in shifts a number of units to the left. Don't know if that's just some consensus of the math community or if that actually has implications. I'm guessing the same is true for transcendentals like the sine function in which case + p shifts the Cartesian plane (that the alternating current sine wave sits in) p units to the left . Associativity might indicate if wt + p were combined, that would imply that -1(wt - p). Either way, one of those things would imply that phase empirically is a time delay. But even with all this... I still don't know what the magic phase constant is for my car, LOL!

    Nuff with the math... I picked up a 1200/1v3 from Crutchfield.

    Metaphorically dodging the tomatoes being thrown at me, LOL! Nah, I mean the hex bolts are always gonna be the weakest link with the Slashes, but if I can rig some 10 AWG pins that fit in the amp terminals and link the pin with 10 or 8 AWG speaker wire, that could very well limit any torque I would have to apply to the hex bolts since I wouldn't have to be smashing the fine strand stuff. I certainly don't swear by JL, but I guess I'm a softy with the RIPS. My RE Audio XX v2 12 D4 is due to arrive next Wednesday or Thursday from Sonic Electronix; 60 lb BEAST. I think it might be a deadly sin to power an RE with a JL amp; hopefully an explosion doesn't take place, LOL! Plus, ABET has made me insane so it sure would be nice to supply 1000 W RMS to a new 12W7v2-3 on occasion. Should probably show up at CES 2015 or 2016, we'll see how that goes.

    Peace Guys!
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    Last edited by KirK; 09-03-2014 at 17:24.
    Democracy is a Hypocrisy.

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  10. #35
    The Nonconformist Registered Member KirK's Avatar
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    The RE Audio XXv2 12 D4 is HERE!

    The kind folks at Sonic had one transducer set aside with a $100 rebate. Regular price $499.99; bought it for $399.99. Bottom line ... DON'T EVER let some heavily biased consumer review typed by an idiot or some retard car stereo shop installer make you think your equipment is inferior to the mainstream brands. I'll have to admit; I do enjoy using JL equipment but it is just WRONG to coerce other peoples opinion of their equipment. INSTALL ACCOUNTS FOR 80%, which is what us logical thinkers think; contrary to the naive loyalist on the Mainstream Brand Bandwagons. If you can't listen to the subwoofer that interests you, look to the Thiele Small Parameters of the transducer. Moral of the story, numbers don't lie; people lie, particularly these mainstream brand naive loyalist 'tards that shy away from anything that involves math... More specifically, these Over-night Wonder, Self Proclaimed Audio Guru's who think x number of years of being enamored with their own perception of audio actually accounts for 'knowledge'...

    The RE XXv2 12 D4 has an Xmax of 38 mm (twice the linear one way stroke of a W6v3 and, what's more, an astounding 3 inches peak-to-peak). In the right ported alignment, that will amount to a quite decadent low frequency extension. As long as the size is reasonable that the WinISD provides, I will go with that design. Otherwise, I will use RE Audio's recommendations. The RE will be the super heavy weight of my lot of transducers, and I have the feeling already that it will stay my personal favorite in my home theater. I'll eventually acquire a TC Sounds sub and a W7v2 later on. My father has began using his saw again at his new residence. The construction of this enclosure will start January and will feature a silver depression the woofer sits in as well as a large acrylic window (1 inch thick) in the side panel with its own dados it will sit in so I can admire the motor structure with illumination from a light circuit on the inside. As of right now, the power converter will be picked up at some point in 2015; that's all I can really say as of right now. We'll run power and ground off one of the RV's batteries in the engine compartment and have that battery be on a charger as a makeshift, temporary setup. Should be up and running as early as February or March of 2015.

    Apparently, the Sonic store can move electronics out of their Louisville, KY stock hub; I thought that was only reserved for their eBay store. Needless to say, it didn't have to far to go to get to my school.



    More images available upon request.
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    Last edited by KirK; 09-04-2014 at 17:42.
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  11. #36
    The Nonconformist Registered Member KirK's Avatar
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    Loose connection...

    Turns out, my Slash 500/1 is okay after all. When I initially crimped the power and ground cables, I had a rinky dink crimper that didn't crimp 4 AWG all too well. With the Polar Vortex and the subsequent pot holes and a failing infrastructure, I can see why those connections would become loose. Pretty much explains the transient nature that baffled me with output. Anyway, problem solved.

    Haven't got around to wiring the DC500.1 up because of the damn atrocious humidity in West Virginia and having to sync my Lenovo with the amp via the 1st Generation Software. Windows 8 isn't giving me the option of locating the USB Driver I want to install it in. I figure once the weather is cooler, I can think a little bit more clearly and can concentrate a lot better on installing the driver. Once I can beef up my car's electrical in a couple years, I'll retire the W6v3 and DC500.1 for HT use once I have the converter up and running. Thinking about just giving my old Slash to my brother Scott. As much as I hate those built in hex bolts, I have to give JL credit for building an amp that has lasted me nearly 10 years now.

    Saw a video several years ago with some guys listening to Lil' John's Knockin Heads Off with two REA XXXv2 18 D4's so that inspired me to produce the video in the Dropbox link. My apologies for some shakiness in handling the camera; I'm a big guy and even have a hard time moving around in luxury car's.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/yh4zv1t6pm...20Off.AVI?dl=0
    Democracy is a Hypocrisy.

    -Malcolm X

  12. #37
    The Nonconformist Registered Member KirK's Avatar
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    Isometric View

    Here's an Iso View...

    Name:  Iso View of REA XXv2 12 D4.jpg
Views: 166
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    It's sitting by my printer and some Aleve, my Go-to for headaches attributed to my junior and senior year semesters in an engineering curriculum. Headaches were quite frequent...

    Another interesting thing is this single 12 displaces more enclosure volume than a 13W7-D1.5. Kudos to RE for listening to their customers and their fine work in transducer engineering. Can't wait to hear this beast next year.
    Democracy is a Hypocrisy.

    -Malcolm X

  13. #38
    The Nonconformist Registered Member KirK's Avatar
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    RE Audio XX v2 12 D4 T/S Parameters

    Some information concerning the Thiele Small Parameters for the RE XX and XX v2 Series from Russell at RE Audio:

    For anybody out there that happens to own an RE Audio XX 12 D4, RE Audio XX 12 D2, RE Audio XXv2 12 D4, and RE Audio XXv2 12 D2; employ the same Thiele Small Parameters of the XXX series for the XX transducers (i.e. Use RE Audio XXXv2 12 D4 T/S Parameters for a RE Audio XXv2 12 D4). Reason being; most of the structure topology is identical with the exception of the size of the magnet. Essentially, all-things-equal neglecting a difference in magnet size.

    Optimum net internal volume is like the XXX 12's; V sub b is 2.25 cu.ft. I'll see what I can surmise with my PVC port idea in January. If need be I'll tune to 34 Hz which ain't that bad at all IMO.

    Thank you very much, Russell.
    Last edited by KirK; 09-10-2014 at 17:01. Reason: Spelling.
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  14. #39
    The Nonconformist Registered Member KirK's Avatar
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    I think I'm backing out of creating a YouTube Channel ... All I ever see in the comments area with harmless videos is nonsense and I need not be burdened with nonsense. I will post images of everything in this thread and upload videos on forums.

    Another contention I have with the idea of a YouTube Channel is the fact that it's inevitably a medium of social networking. My K through 12 experience can be likened to what a Veitenam War Veteran endured in the war's aftermath. So, needless to say, I don't give a flying f*ck about social media or attributing an active social life.
    Democracy is a Hypocrisy.

    -Malcolm X

  15. #40
    The Nonconformist Registered Member KirK's Avatar
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    Phase Figured Out.

    Thanks to my engineering, math, and science text books I accumulated over the last decade, here's the key thing with phase that EVEN I have to keep in mind.

    Current is AC so:

    i(t) = Isin(wt + P) *+P because amps usually are 0 to +180 degrees.

    In transforming the period for the sine, we find that it cycles from 0 to 2pi. Working with the argument of the sine and 0:

    wt + P = 0 ====> wt = -P as compared to i(t) = Isin(wt) as the sine with origin symmetry (or abscissa/ordinate axis intercept at zero). The -P indicates the sine shifts to the left |-P| units. Empirically, the signal is delayed in time by P units. Big thanks goes to Larson and Hostetler, LOL!
    Democracy is a Hypocrisy.

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  16. #41
    SeNiOr MeMbEr!!! Registered Member nastynas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KirK View Post
    Not only did Robin Williams die yesterday; my Uncle Stevie Morey passed as well. My Uncle Steve was really gifted with carving and painting decoys. Before I began my elementary education way back in '89, I used to be OC with watching hummingbirds. My brother and I asked if he could paint some decoy hummingbirds my father had made. In the end, the decoys looked spot on and often confused the usual fair of Ruby Throated hummers that came to the feeder. But, I sorta had to abandon that instance of OCD from the 90's onward because of school. Nonetheless, I am thankful for having Uncle Stevie Morey in my life.

    Having Asperger's, I can completely empathize with Williams bout with depression and the onslaught of suicidal ruminations that accompanies it. It's a damn shame alcohol is so readily available; it worsens depression. Ironic that the Media almost never investigates the dangers of alcohol and caffeine and is so hell bent on investigating the dangers of marijuana ... SFM ...
    I am very sorry to hear about your uncle, it is never good to lose close relatives. I had an uncle that passed away a few years ago due to cancer so I can understand your sentiments.

    If you have any kind of suicidal tendencies, just send me a PM and I find you a really well priced Zapco C2K 9.0, if you're interested in it? I have one myself and this a friends.

    I understand very little about Mathematical equations but will just nod and pretend i understand :P

    The part that I took particular interest in was your following quote:
    Some information concerning the Thiele Small Parameters for the RE XX and XX v2 Series from Russell at RE Audio:

    For anybody out there that happens to own an RE Audio XX 12 D4, RE Audio XX 12 D2, RE Audio XXv2 12 D4, and RE Audio XXv2 12 D2; employ the same Thiele Small Parameters of the XXX series for the XX transducers (i.e. Use RE Audio XXXv2 12 D4 T/S Parameters for a RE Audio XXv2 12 D4). Reason being; most of the structure topology is identical with the exception of the size of the magnet. Essentially, all-things-equal neglecting a difference in magnet size.

    Optimum net internal volume is like the XXX 12's; V sub b is 2.25 cu.ft. I'll see what I can surmise with my PVC port idea in January. If need be I'll tune to 34 Hz which ain't that bad at all IMO.

    Thank you very much, Russell.
    Basically, Jared designed me a kick ass enclosure for my 12 inch REA XXX (Version 4). This enclosure hit really low (28hz or so) and (iirc) only had a 3db roll off all the way up to 100hz so was extremely flat, which In my opinion is perfect.

    I am telling you this because I have recently purchased a pair of 15 inch REA XXX V2 subs for my younger brother and nephew. I was wondering as per the above, if I am able to use the same enclosure design for the V2s as the V4? Bearing in mind the V2s are 15 inch and the V4 is 12 inch. The 15s will each have a separate enclosure.

    If I have to make some corrections to the enclosure design, would you know what I would need to make as flat and as low as what Jared designed for me? I am thinking of asking Eric but I don't really want to bother him as he is a busy family man.

    Any help would be greatly appreciated and I am still waiting for you to to install whatsapp or viber lol
    Last edited by nastynas; 10-08-2014 at 13:13.
    ''these Over-night Wonder, Self Proclaimed Audio Guru's who think x number of years of being enamored with their own perception of audio actually accounts for 'knowledge'... '' Kirk

  17. #42
    SeNiOr MeMbEr!!! Registered Member nastynas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KirK View Post
    Not only did Robin Williams die yesterday; my Uncle Stevie Morey passed as well. My Uncle Steve was really gifted with carving and painting decoys. Before I began my elementary education way back in '89, I used to be OC with watching hummingbirds. My brother and I asked if he could paint some decoy hummingbirds my father had made. In the end, the decoys looked spot on and often confused the usual fair of Ruby Throated hummers that came to the feeder. But, I sorta had to abandon that instance of OCD from the 90's onward because of school. Nonetheless, I am thankful for having Uncle Stevie Morey in my life.

    Having Asperger's, I can completely empathize with Williams bout with depression and the onslaught of suicidal ruminations that accompanies it. It's a damn shame alcohol is so readily available; it worsens depression. Ironic that the Media almost never investigates the dangers of alcohol and caffeine and is so hell bent on investigating the dangers of marijuana ... SFM ...
    I am very sorry to hear about your uncle, it is never good to lose close relatives. I had an uncle that passed away a few years ago due to cancer so I can understand your sentiments.

    If you have any kind of suicidal tendencies, just send me a PM and I find you a really well priced Zapco C2K 9.0, if you're interested in it? I have one myself and this a friends.

    I understand very little about Mathematical equations but will just nod and pretend i understand :P

    The part that I took particular interest in was your following quote:
    Some information concerning the Thiele Small Parameters for the RE XX and XX v2 Series from Russell at RE Audio:

    For anybody out there that happens to own an RE Audio XX 12 D4, RE Audio XX 12 D2, RE Audio XXv2 12 D4, and RE Audio XXv2 12 D2; employ the same Thiele Small Parameters of the XXX series for the XX transducers (i.e. Use RE Audio XXXv2 12 D4 T/S Parameters for a RE Audio XXv2 12 D4). Reason being; most of the structure topology is identical with the exception of the size of the magnet. Essentially, all-things-equal neglecting a difference in magnet size.

    Optimum net internal volume is like the XXX 12's; V sub b is 2.25 cu.ft. I'll see what I can surmise with my PVC port idea in January. If need be I'll tune to 34 Hz which ain't that bad at all IMO.

    Thank you very much, Russell.
    Basically, Jared designed me a kick ass enclosure for my V4 REA XXX. This enclosure hit really low (28hz or so) and (iirc) only had a 3db roll off all the way up to 100hz so was extremely flat, which In my opinion is perfect.

    I am telling you this because I have recently purchased a pair of REA XXX V2 (i think) subs. (Definitely not the V4) for my younger brother and nephew. I was wondering as per the above, if I am able to use the same enclosure design for the V2s as the V4?

    If I have to make some corrections to the enclosure design, would you know what I would need to make as flat and as low?

    Any help would be greatly appreciated and I am still waiting for you to to install whatsapp or viber lol
    ''these Over-night Wonder, Self Proclaimed Audio Guru's who think x number of years of being enamored with their own perception of audio actually accounts for 'knowledge'... '' Kirk

  18. #43
    The Nonconformist Registered Member KirK's Avatar
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    Hey Nas; admittedly, I'm a little grey on the topic, in a metaphorical sense. Basically, thus far, I build enclosures around the net internal volume V sub b, and I try to make the half power and tuning frequencies close to the manufacturers, like my recent install for the 12W6v3-D4. I can email you the formulas I use for calculating the half power and tuning frequencies. Sorry about procrastinating with whatsapp; I've been busy studying for my Fundamentals of Engineering since August. I took a chance and took it without accommodations since my High Function Spectrum Autism diagnosis is 6 years old. NCEES requires the evals to be < 3 years old. As a matter of fact, I just took the FE last Friday, October 3rd. The damn timer distracted me on the screen when I was taking it; there was no way of hiding the timer. Failed, but I was expecting it. Nice thing, however, is my present psychiatrist is the very same person who had diagnosed me in 2008, so I'll get the evals updated in January, re-register, and fingers crossed, take the exam towards the end of January or February. To me, time always sucks on exams, it's just distracting.

    Yeah, I spoke to Russell from REA; needed to know the T/S Params so I can begin using winISD. Russ said T/S Qts, VAS, etc are applicable from the XXX's to the XX's. Some exceptions are obviously Fs, Xmax, and some others. For the XX, Fs is 28 Hz and Xmax is 38 mm for the 12. In my intuition with T/S, larger net internal volume lowers the half power freq while longer vents (or ports) lower the tuning freq, but that's the extent of my T/S Engineering acumen, LOL!

    My apologies with my math jargon, when I was younger I was certainly not the prodigious honor student, as a matter of fact I was in special ed up until the 5th grade. I thought arithmetic sucked but I liked algebra, trig, and calculus. As a matter of fact, I'm a paid tutor at my school. I tutor two other engineering students in the school's autism program; I usually can easily tutor them in Calc I and Calc II. I just had a knack for Calc. But my intense exposure to it in my prereq days often times clouds my judgement of how many others understand (or may not have the time to understand) it. 'If some lowly kid like me with autism fathoms it, why don't others' is the certain funk perception I fall into sometimes. But, based on my observations, people certainly have more important responsibilities they have to tend to in their lives, and the fact of the matter is, Calc is almost never used. In my junior and senior years alone, I was astounded with how little its used; going into it, I thought it was vital.

    Thanks for your concern with my empathy with Robin Williams. My central deficiencies with my autism are in the areas of communication and socialization. I'll admit, my K through 12 experience straight up sucked, but I am pretty optimistic now that I'm close to graduation and can move back to Cali and take care of my father. As far as amps go, I appreciate you informing me about the C2K-9.0XD, Nas. But for now, I bought a JL 1200/1v3. My home theater is essentially going to be like a demo style car audio setup. Its expensive, but its a hobby, so I'm quite indifferent about it. Going to get a programmable AC/DC power supply sometime in 2015 or 2016 being the latest.

    BTW, Nas, are you nas911 on Zapco forums? I happened to see newest member nas911 on September 11th sev weeks ago. Just figured I'd ask...

    Take care Nas
    Last edited by KirK; 10-08-2014 at 17:50.
    Democracy is a Hypocrisy.

    -Malcolm X

  19. #44
    The Nonconformist Registered Member KirK's Avatar
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    On another topic, I finally was able to successfully upload the settings to my Zapco DC500.1. The 10 band PEQ is flat, I adjusted the input sensitivity up to about 45%, sorta the same place I had the gain set on the JLA 500/1, and have the polarity or phase reversed, or delayed in time by 180 degrees. I had the luxury beforehand of making that setting on my Eclipse CD 5030, and it just, empirically, 'sounded' better. Like I said in a previous post, the time delay is proportional to the phase value, -(180 deg)/w, but honestly I don't think I'll ever know the angular freq, w, in my life time, so that makes BOTH of us, Nas, LOL!

    Well its gettin late, Imma clock out, LOL!
    Democracy is a Hypocrisy.

    -Malcolm X

  20. #45
    SeNiOr MeMbEr!!! Registered Member nastynas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KirK View Post
    Hey Nas; admittedly, I'm a little grey on the topic, in a metaphorical sense. Basically, thus far, I build enclosures around the net internal volume V sub b, and I try to make the half power and tuning frequencies close to the manufacturers, like my recent install for the 12W6v3-D4. I can email you the formulas I use for calculating the half power and tuning frequencies.

    Yeah, I spoke to Russell from REA; needed to know the T/S Params so I can begin using winISD. Russ said T/S Qts, VAS, etc are applicable from the XXX's to the XX's. Some exceptions are obviously Fs, Xmax, and some others. For the XX, Fs is 28 Hz and Xmax is 38 mm for the 12. In my intuition with T/S, larger net internal volume lowers the half power freq while longer vents (or ports) lower the tuning freq, but that's the extent of my T/S Engineering acumen, LOL!

    I tutor two other engineering students in the school's autism program; I usually can easily tutor them in Calc I and Calc II.

    My central deficiencies with my autism are in the areas of communication and socialization. I'll admit, my K through 12 experience straight up sucked, but I am pretty optimistic now that I'm close to graduation and can move back to Cali and take care of my father.


    Take care Nas
    Hey kirk

    I would be grateful if you could email me the formulas you use. Not sure if and how I can apply them but would be interesting none the less. I managed to get the T/S parameters for the V3 XXX, they are as follows,

    XXX15
    Fs 28.0 Hz
    Re 1.9 DVC
    Qms 4.68
    Qes 0.55
    Qts 0.49
    Sd cm2 810
    Vas 123.3 l
    Xmax 1 way linear 32mm
    BL 17.1
    SPL 1W/1m 88.7
    RMS 1600 W
    Max 2500 W
    Additional info:
    Cutout 14 1/8"
    Displacement 0.21 cuft
    Mounting depth 9"
    Weight 28 kilo

    Would it be possible for Russell from RE to design me an enclosure for this? I was kind of hoping you would have the know how but to know someone from RE is a God send .

    As for your communication and socialistion skills, they seem fine to me. I work/support people that are high on the Autsim spectrum scale as well as people with multiple learning disabilities so I believe I can atleast partially relate to what kind of issues you may face. Good job on the tutoring though

    I am trying to respond to you as quickly as possible without being late for work (story of my life lol) so I apologise for not being able to respond to all your post but I want to leave you a pic of my subs atm.

    Name:  photo.jpg
Views: 167
Size:  101.8 KB
    ''these Over-night Wonder, Self Proclaimed Audio Guru's who think x number of years of being enamored with their own perception of audio actually accounts for 'knowledge'... '' Kirk

  21. #46
    SeNiOr MeMbEr!!! Registered Member nastynas's Avatar
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    Would you by any chance know what the nomogram ratings are for these woofers or would you be able to contact Russell and ask him what the nomogram ratings are for the V3 and V4 xxx? I am trying to get my hands on the LEAP subwoofer enclosure design software, would love to play with that lol

    Any help would be greatly appreciated.
    Last edited by nastynas; 10-18-2014 at 06:14.
    ''these Over-night Wonder, Self Proclaimed Audio Guru's who think x number of years of being enamored with their own perception of audio actually accounts for 'knowledge'... '' Kirk

  22. #47
    The Nonconformist Registered Member KirK's Avatar
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    Hey Nas,

    Sent you an email.

    I'll send you an email tomorrow with the half power and tuning frequency formulas. Civil engineers usually go to a scientific or engineering calculator with these types of formulas, whereas Mathematicians and Physicist will loftily approximate such formulas with McLarin Series representations. So us CE's are a bit down-to-earth as we'll use our engineering calculators.

    Personal Recommendations for calculators:

    Both formulas can be typed in as they appear with a Casio fx 115ES calculator. This has been the engineering veteran favorite for years, but I'm a Texas Instruments Guy. My personal favorite is the Texas Instruments TI-36XPro, which is still relatively new; it came out the beginning of 2013. I don't know if you can find such in the UK, but essentially you're looking for a calculator with 'mathprint' capability (i.e. stacked fraction input and output capability). My TI-89 Titanium only has mathprint output capability; nice calculator but the amount of parentheses I have to input to get P.E.M.D.A.S. to work can be quite tedious (entering (1/4) +(1/3) and all that crap ...)

    I'll email Russ @ REA tomorrow; I've seen nomogram ratings applied in civil engineering. Basically, like the exact cut-out diameter for the front baffle, right?

    I usually put my emails out to various manufacturers before the work week to counteract any uncertainty in the techs shifts scheduled days. I spoke to Mike from JLA earlier this year about an NBR surround being applied to the W7 in a version 2. Not surprising, the transducer engineers don't divulge all that much to the techs, logically to prevent mass public hysteria. However, Mike did say if a version 2 is to be made in the not so distant future, it would adopt the NBR like the W3v3 and W6v3 series. As a matter of fact, I had emailed Mike back in 2011 about W6v3's, but not surprisingly, the TE's didn't communicate those projects to the techs ... and then the version 3's debuted in 2012. I'm not surprised that the version 2 of the Fathoms still have the polyester foam surrounds. Foam does have some advantages over NBR and is likely to be the tried and true surround material for the home audio transducers (subwoofers).

    'Kay, I will send some emails tomorrow. Nas, BTW, I think I have successfully downloaded the whatsapp on my LG (there's more details about the download in the email I sent you).

    Take care Nas
    Democracy is a Hypocrisy.

    -Malcolm X

  23. #48
    SeNiOr MeMbEr!!! Registered Member nastynas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KirK View Post
    Hey Nas,

    Sent you an email.

    I'll email Russ @ REA tomorrow; I've seen nomogram ratings applied in civil engineering. Basically, like the exact cut-out diameter for the front baffle, right?

    'Kay, I will send some emails tomorrow. Nas, BTW, I think I have successfully downloaded the whatsapp on my LG (there's more details about the download in the email I sent you).

    Take care Nas
    Hey Kirk,

    thanks for your Emails. I can say with certainty that your emails deserved a longer and more thought out response then what you received from me but hey, atleast I'm trying lol.

    I actually have no idea what a nomogram or its rating is! Even CV got stuck on this one, it was at this point where he said something along the lines of forget all that, I will design something for you.

    I look forward to you downloading whatsapp. If you download Viber, we can actually talk via voip

    Anyway, i will assume what you have said about nomogram ratings is correct and eagerly look forward to what you and Russel have to say

    Thank you,

    Nas
    ''these Over-night Wonder, Self Proclaimed Audio Guru's who think x number of years of being enamored with their own perception of audio actually accounts for 'knowledge'... '' Kirk

  24. #49
    The Nonconformist Registered Member KirK's Avatar
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    Yeah ... what I was alluding to with nomogram ratings I believe came from a Hydraulics Engineering course I took a couple years back. Essentially, uhhm if I can remember ... there happened to be three gauges that had different graduations and ceilings (or maximums) ... I think we used a reading from the three gauges that happened to be selected in some increasing linear pattern ... F*ck I can't remember, LOL! Some bizarre homework problem, but this was like two years ago ... and it was in a Civil context not an Electrical or Transducer Engineering context. But, we had a VERY brief exposure to nomograms nonetheless. Hell, I'm not going into Hydraulics or Hydrology anyway so its no prob. Could be a blessing I failed the FE; I don't like the fact that I would have a metaphorical Liability cloud hanging over my head everywhere I went if I hypothetically pursued something like Structural Engineering. Ironic, the dumb bureaucrats like the politicians and economists that would hypothetically be constraining my resources (like TIME) would walk away from some structure failure / disaster attributing not so much as an ounce of liability and that liability would 100% be on me, the PE (Professional Engineer). A psychologist would call that a rather distorted perception, but to me its like the old cliche', 'an ounce of prevention is worth a pound in cure'. I get a BSE this December so its generalized engineering with a subtitle 'with Civil Engineering Emphasis'. Hell, I could go into an Exec position for a utility since my degree would be that versatile. Maybe, I could even consider Mechanical; I loved all the ME courses I took. Too many dumb exams in engineering, LOL! Ahh ... damn I'm digressing!

    I know there's a book a lot of novices (like me!) in loudspeaker enclosure design can benefit from. It's been around for ages;

    Vance Dickason's The Loudspeaker Design Cookbook

    Personally, I would love to get my hands on a copy after I graduate in December. The Golden Ratio is used preliminarily to obtain some general panel dimensions to avoid panel resonance. But, that rule of thumb is not always necessary if you're doubling up on 0.75 inch thickness, which is what my plans are for my XX12 v2 D4.

    Probably sticking with what Russ told me to keep things within reasonable size and weight; f sub b 34 Hz and big V sub b 2.25 cu. ft. If it's over 150 lbs I'm undoubtedly going to get a hyrneated disk. I'm 6', ideally I should be 200 lbs, but thanks to ABET (specifically my junior and senior years in engineering) I'm a hefty 275 lb, gosh I'm shaking my head, LOL! Going to be doing plenty of hiking and mountain biking once I graduate 'cause right now its either immersion in study or burnout recovery over winter and summer breaks that keeps my rec activities low. School was just crazy the past couple of years; lab reports that would pass as a Master thesis or Dissertation in sheer volume (the freaking report paper thickness) of the final report. Those dumb CE Materials and Geotech courses were the two culprits, LOL!

    Take care Nas
    Democracy is a Hypocrisy.

    -Malcolm X

  25. #50
    The Nonconformist Registered Member KirK's Avatar
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    Slight Change in Power Plans ...

    Since my audi is about to hit 150k mi; time for me to plan ahead. Instead of dropping $3k on a AC/DC power supply, this January I'm picking up a Behringer iNuke NU3000DSP for my REA XX v2 12 D4. I'll wire the VC's in series for 8 omegas (ohms ... LOL!).

    I'm glad I have the JLA 1200/1v3 handy for the meantime; I'll use it with a W7v2 in my next car. Since my school's near Ohio, I figured I'd save some $ and get some 1/0 AWG P/G and 8 AWG SW from KnuKonceptz in Windham; it is all about supporting the current. Saved big time $ on the 1/0 AWG.

    As for other woofers in my theater, I'll eventually purchase a NU1000DSP for the other W7v2 I'll use in the theater. I'll just have to make sure the DMM reads 54.8 V AC for that setup..

    Quite acclimated with winISD; settled on 2.7 cu. ft net internal (after displacements) for the REA XX tuned to 20 Hz. I'm no where near Xmax which is good for the longevity of the woofer (more like 55 to 60% of the Xmax, 38 mm). Not surprising, when I had asked Mike about my ported enclosure ideas he stated that the LFE would be better, but the peak will be attenuated compared to other designs. My design has a max spl of 112 dB at 20 Hz, which is awesome enough for me; the cone excursion peaks to 22 mm at 32 Hz with my design. Is it a good design? No, its subjective and relative to my tastes; I would just favor better LFE with movies even if it came at the expense of output. My reasoning on 2.7 cu ft is the Equivalent Air Compliance Vas is 2.61 cu ft for the REA XX. My dad's saw is great, but being precise down to the one hundredths of a decimal is something that most table saws can't accomplish.

    Nas, I forwarded you my correspondence with Russell Anthon thus far. Because its an older version of the XXX he needs to talk to corporate for implementing a design.

    Well, saving some $ now for myself will help me in getting another Audi in the next 2 years.
    Democracy is a Hypocrisy.

    -Malcolm X

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