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  1. #1
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    does anyone know if a pair of 400$ headers are good?? i also found a pair for 1300$ and i didnt know if the 400$ pair was cheap. all the parts are new.
    i also heard that the gaskets will leak overtime, but then i heard you could get locking gaskets that prevent this.

    does anyone know if this is true. Also, does anyone know of any sites that have a good pair of headers less than 500$ ???

  2. #2
    Spam Reaper Site Moderator Slanter's Avatar
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    Cheap headers by my standards would be a $80 pair. Headers that cheap are likely to be trouble.

    There are a few things you can check about the headers to determine their durability.

    1. How thick is the flange where they bolt to the cylinder head? The thicker, the less likely they are to leak.

    2. How thick is the tubing?

    3. What sort of rust protection do they have? Paint is not good. Chrome is a little better. Stainless steel or ceramic coatings are the best.

    4. Not a durability question, but are they emissions legal?

    If the answers to all of the above are favorable, I wouldn't worry about it unless I had heard reports of these headers being unreliable.
    Slanter - redefining "jury rigged repair" since 1997
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  3. #3
    I am Batman Registered Member 06Rubicon's Avatar
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    Cheap, Quality Headers and Decent Retailers

    silveradozoom44,
    The answer is yes! There are many manufacturers of quality headers in the $400 range and lots of retailers sell them. A good example is this set of Thorley Headers for a Chevy small block offered by Summit Racing: http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku

    I picked Thorley as an example because I know of at least two performance exhaust shops here in Ventura that swear by them. Of all the header brands they have put on, they claim to have fewer problems with Thorley headers. One shop claims that they have never had a set leak over several years worth of business.

    I can attest to using a "dead soft" aluminum header gasket and some Stage 8 Locking header bolts with a set of Dynomax Ceramic Coated headers on a '94 Silverado P/U without any leaks. I re-torqued the bolts once after the initial install as required and put 10,000 miles on those headers with no problems.

    I picked Summit Racing because I have done a lot of business with them over the years and their service is always great, their prices are competitive, and their techs are knowledgeable and friendly. Also because their warehouse is close to me and I can usually get my order within a couple of days!

    I've also dealt with Jeg's Performance in the past (I got the Dynomax headers from them). They too have an extensive product line and competitive pricing but, I found their techs to be jerks. They didn't seem to want to give me the time of day let alone the information I was seeking.

    If you don't know already, you're sure to discover that most newer vehicle applications are going to be "shorty" style headers or "tubular exhaust" as it is often called. Shorties were designed, in part, to accommodate catalytic converters, which are required by law on every vehicle operated in the United States after 1975. Shorties will provide some increase in horsepower, torque, and fuel economy over stock exhaust manifolds but, if you want something you can feel in the seat of your pants, long tube headers are the ticket.

    Tube length and diameter have a major effect on "scavenging", which ultimately aids in getting the air/fuel mixture started on the induction side of the equation. Scavenging makes a significant difference because, after all, the internal combustion engine is just a glorified air pump and as the speed and volume of air flowing through the engine increases, so do horsepower and torque.

    Unfortunately, fitment of long tube headers is often an issue with newer vehicles due to the catalytic converters. Many companies offer long tube designs with customs cats bolted directly to the collectors but if you read the fine print, most of these state they are for racing or off-road use only, and are not street legal.

    In addition, replacing good, working, factory cats with custom ones could also be an issue. Under Federal EPA regulation, replacement of original catalytic converters is allowed only if the original converter(s) is missing, or the vehicle has more than 50,000 miles or is at least five years old and the need for a replacement has been established and documented, or a local inspection program has determined the existing converter is in need of replacement.

    Bottom line - if your vehicle came from the factory with cats on it, you will most likely have to build a custom exhaust around them (assuming you are a decent, law abiding citizen ). If it did not, then sky's the limit and in either case, the good news is that you can build a decent, custom exhaust even on a limited budget!
    Last edited by 06Rubicon; 10-30-2006 at 01:47.

  4. #4
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    I would recommend you buy the genuine Honda Performance Parts.

  5. #5
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    Smile thx for reply

    slanter and rubicon, thx for the informative replies. however, rubicon, i dont quite understand all of the "engine talk" lol, so i have a few questions for you.

    1. So after all the suggestions you made about shorty/long tube headers, what would suggest to me to get the most horsepower and the best sound at the lowest price. ( i can spend up to 700) i am pretty sure i have a cat converter. 04 silverado ext. cab 4.8 liter v8 could you give me like an adress to a exact page.

    2. How much horsepower are we talking here. Will it make a huge difference in accel.

    3. Ive also heard about perfomance chips and programmers. I know their way more effective with deisels than with gas cars and ive been having trouble finding actual chips for my truck. I have found programmers galore and i was wondering which was better.

    I dont really care about towing power, i just want alotta horse power to smoke the tires and the competition.

    sry about all the q's, i was just wondering if you could give your "2 cents"
    -silveradozoom44

  6. #6
    I am Batman Registered Member 06Rubicon's Avatar
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    Budget Headers and Exhaust System

    silveradozoom44,
    I did provide you with a complete listing of performance parts, with part numbers and the web site where I found them. Check out the forums section under Performance Mods and click on your thread "hp increase...?" These performance mods totaled right around $700 and would net you around 40 horsepower, maybe more.

    Anyway, I have responded to each of your questions below - see red text....

    Quote Originally Posted by silveradozoom44
    slanter and rubicon, thx for the informative replies. however, rubicon, i dont quite understand all of the "engine talk" lol, so i have a few questions for you.

    1. So after all the suggestions you made about shorty/long tube headers, what would suggest to me to get the most horsepower and the best sound at the lowest price. ( i can spend up to 700) i am pretty sure i have a cat converter. 04 silverado ext. cab 4.8 liter v8 could you give me like an adress to a exact page.

    Shorty headers: [URL="http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=EDL%2D65002&N=700+4294908216+4294907438+4294924385+4294839968+ 4294918680+115&autoview=sku"]http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=EDL%2D65002&N=700+4294908216+4294907438+4294924385+4294839968+ 4294918680+115&autoview=sku

    Gibson Super Truck Exhaust System (I put this system on my 2004 Dodge Hemi Quadcab truck - awesome sound!!): http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku

    2. How much horsepower are we talking here. Will it make a huge difference in accel.

    Headers and Cat-back system will give you around 20 hp. However, to get the most from a high flow exhaust, you need a high flow air intake system (cold air intake), which can give you another 5 - 10 hp. Add a throttle body spacer for another 5 hp. Remember, an engine is basically a glorified air pump; more air flow means more power. Choke either end of this "air pump" and you will not realize the full potential.

    Chevy's 2004 overhead cam 4.8L V8 makes 285 hp stock. Another 30 hp puts you at 315 hp. This will definitely improve acceleration, and your ability to put on a good smoke show.


    3. Ive also heard about perfomance chips and programmers. I know their way more effective with deisels than with gas cars and ive been having trouble finding actual chips for my truck. I have found programmers galore and i was wondering which was better.

    You can't find chips for your '04 Silverado because it is equipped with an OBD II computer, as is every car built since January 1, 1996 to the best of my knowledge. OBD II computers are sealed and do not allow for chip replacement. (OBD = On-Board Diagnostics). You will have to use a programmer.

    I dont really care about towing power, i just want alotta horse power to smoke the tires and the competition.

    When I was 16, I said something very similar to my dad and he replied, "Speed takes money; how fast do you want to go?" In all honesty, $700 isn't going to give you much of a woody, if you know what I mean but, 30 hp is respectable for that price. For comparison, a Powerdyne Supercharger with 6 pounds of boost would give your 4.8L an extra 75+ hp for a cost of $2,850.00.

    sry about all the q's, i was just wondering if you could give your "2 cents"
    -silveradozoom44
    Speed takes money. How fast do you want to go?

  7. #7
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    Question

    rubicon, thx for the info,
    i have another question. i might have heard from you or someone else on this sight but i haven't been able to find it.

    any way i remember reading that headers will heat up and fry all your electrical wires etc.
    but than all cars have headers so....... please advise.

    silveradozoom44

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by silveradozoom44
    rubicon, thx for the info,
    i have another question. i might have heard from you or someone else on this sight but i haven't been able to find it.

    any way i remember reading that headers will heat up and fry all your electrical wires etc.
    but than all cars have headers so....... please advise.

    silveradozoom44
    I'm not sure where Rubicon came up with the notion that you can't chip your car - maybe he's talking about not being able to take out the computer and solder in a new chip...which is something I'd never recommend that you do anyways. Sure, its OBD-II (which is a good thing, by the way. A very good thing) but that doesn't mean you can't go to http://www.automotiveconcepts.net/st...uct_11997.html and order a chip for it. By the way, chips, especially that JET Module, are an awesome way to add safe, proven horsepower to your vehicle without deminishing ride quality.

    All cars do not have 'headers'. All cars have 'exhaust manifolds' which produce a lot less heat and look a lot differently. Headers will heat up. If you leave anythign dangling on or right next to the header it'll melt it...If you're really ocncerned buy a bit of heatwrap and wrap your headers in it - should keep any nearby wires and whatnot safe.

    You need to remember something about headers, also. When you install them you have to tighten them multiple times. First tighten..then drive around and then while they're still HOT (not warm, HOT, so be careful) turn the car off and retighten. Then let them cool and retighten yet again. Get some decent gaskets and follow the above mentioned tightening steps and you should have no exhaust leaks.

    Also, the gains states by Rubicon are...generous. Don't be surprised if you don't see quite that much.

    And on a last note. Shorty headers make more power in the lower RPM bands, but less in the higher RPM bands. Long tubes lose a little power in he low RPM bands, and make a whole lot more power in the upper RPM bands. Ask yourself, when you romp on the gas, where in the RPM band are you going to be?
    Last edited by vip18971; 12-26-2006 at 12:31.

  9. #9
    I am Batman Registered Member 06Rubicon's Avatar
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    $700 Performance Upgrade

    vip18971,
    I was not talking about opening the computer and soldering anything. Prior to OBD II computers, you used to be able to remove an access panel on the computer "case" and install a computer chip. OBD II cases are sealed; they have no access panel. I had informed silveradozoom 44 in another discussion on this site that there are other options available, such as the JET Performance Module (a type of chip) or Programmer.

    I disagree with your assessment of horsepower gains. If silveradozoom44 installed the parts and synthetic oil listed in my previous blog, 30 h.p. is reasonable, not generous. Royal Purple Synthetic Oil can provide a 10 h.p. increase alone and there are dyno tests to back that up. So getting another 20 h.p. from a complete, high flow air intake and exhaust system is definitely within reason. If you can prove otherwise, please do so.

    Also, if you buy the right parts, you DO NOT have to torque the headers bolts repeatedly. Just once after they get hot is sufficient. As I explained to silveradozoom44 in one of my responses to him, I installed a set of Dynomax Ceramic Coated headers on a '94 Silverado truck I owned using a "dead soft" aluminum gasket and Stage 8 locking header bolts. I torqued the bolts one time after getting the headers hot and that was sufficient.

    Lastly, I would say the grind on the camshaft actually determines where an engine makes peak power within the entire rpm range, not the headers. Different grinds provide different power characteristics.
    Speed takes money. How fast do you want to go?

  10. #10
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    Are cheap headers any good?

    Cheap Header parts are definitely good. You can find most of them available in your area.
    throttle body spacer

  11. #11
    Junior Member Registered Member bustamove's Avatar
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    Nay, Nay

    Quote Originally Posted by chrishil
    Cheap Header parts are definitely good. You can find most of them available in your area.
    Cheap headers are not designed with the best flow for the exhaust and are made of cheaper materials. Performance gains are not realized if headers are designed incorrectly for a specific application and you can actually lose power by using cheap headers.

  12. #12
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    vehicles are actually better

    I guess it should be a lesson for us to make sure that the car we are purchasing is in good condition. Fuel performance is a large selling point for lots of vehicles. Getting an energy efficient auto is always a smart move, as you conserve at the pump. The vehicle industry is globally aware of this, and thus most really popular cars have 4 cylinder or small 6 cylinder engines, with the occasional inline 5. However, there is something that rarely gets brought up. Namely, some vehicles are actually better off with an 8 cylinder.

  13. #13
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    Headers

    Yes ive never found them to be problematic I cant remember the name of the ones i have but ill try and find out and post back, i guess you have to do some research on them first around the net for the particular brand your going for but id say there good if they are saving me a few dollars


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