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turbonator, does it really work?
I have seen adds on TV about products such as the "turbonator" (http://www.turbonator.com/) and other similar products, does anyone know if they really work (even half as much as they are advertised), or is a complete waste of money?
Regards,
Cogito
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I've heard that several of the magazines listed in the "As seen in" graphic on their front page actually dyno tested this thing (or one of its cousins "The Tornado" or "SpiralMax") and found results ranging from no horsepower gain to losing horsepower. I have never seen a dyno graph from a reputable source showing such a device providing an increase in power. Putting one of those pinwheels in your air intake system will create a restriction, like driving around with the throttle unable to completely open. And the vortex isn't likely to make it past the throttle, either.
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I think first of all your both talking about apples and oranges. One of you is talking about something along the lines of an (electric) esupercharger or turbonator and the other is talking about a tornado fuel saver (non electric).
I can't speak for the turbonator but I can attest that the tornado DOES work on a '99 Ford Contour but again as it has been said time and time again it is SLIGHT. I drive 92 miles one way to work so even a slight difference is noticeable on my huge gas bill. It saved me about what is said which was roughly 10% increase in gas mileage. Ok that's only a whopping 3 mpg but it is there all the same and I'm absolutely positive. My car will get on average an extra 30-40 miles on a fill up now. This isn't a lot for most people but since I drive so much it adds up rather quickly and anyone that fills up every two days at todays gas prices will notice the number of miles before their car runs out of gas in a short time. The car is a little more perky in the 30-70 mph range too. I'm not spending money to dyno test it. I don't care about the hp gain if any. I do care it does save gas and I can pretty much conclude it saves gas by increasing hp without changing anything except efficiency. (So I'm pretty sure they're not lying about hp increases.)
I plan on buying a turbonator soon to see if it helps further with my mpg. I don't trust the plasic blades on it though being exposed to my intake so I have to resolve that problem before I'll attempt to install it though. Maybe some sort of custom filter setup.
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No confusion here, blueskip. The "Turbonator" is not an electronic supercharger at all. Here's how they describe it on their own web page: "The Turbonator™ is a non-moving vortex generator that goes inside your air intake hose, right after your air filter. It is made entirely from stainless steel." Pretty much exactly the same thing as the Tornado, although some of the Tornados I've seen appear to be galvanized steel instead of stainless.
As for your MPG increase. The Tornado, as I have said before, is likely to restrict the intake. That's like having a throttle that won't open all the way. Depending on how you drive, I can see that increasing the mileage. But it's not through more efficiency - I'm pretty certain the increase is because your engine cannot draw in as much air with the Tornado jamming things up.
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I can't beleive people actually buy that stuff! :D
If you think that helps throw a little Z max in your fuel and Slick 50 in your oil. :D
This thread was good for a chuckle though.
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Or would that be putting Zmax in your oil and Slick 50 in the gas tank? Somehow, I'm not sure it would make much of a difference either way.
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It is amazing how many people buy this stuff and don't know about all of the law suits these companys have against them.
The gov rulled that Slick 50 was using false advertising and cannot make any of the claims on the bottle anymore.
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What alternatives are available/recommended to "turbo charge" a vehicle?
Hey,
I'm brand new to the forum and of course happy to be a part of it. I was reading your comment on this "Turbonator" thing. I've been thinking about buying it for my 1999 Camaro. Until I ran across this forum, I've seen other opinions that seems to differ from yours. However your comments tells me that you are very knowledable and well informed in the car business. So I'm very interested in what you have to say about this thing called Turbonator. Do you recommend something else that would do the job at a reasonable price?
Thanks Man,
Michael
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Hello M1A1,
A true turbocharger is going to cost you a fair amount of money, unless you are willing to go to all the work of taking a turbo off a junkyard car and adapting it to yours. And on the last generation Camaro, that's a royal pain given its cramped engine compartment. Turbocharging and supercharging are some of the few bolt-on mods that will give you 50% or more extra horsepower.
But if you just want an inexpensive, easily installed part that will give you a small boost in power, I recommend either a gauze-type air filter, or a cold air intake system if you have a little more cash to spare. For the Camaro, you can find cold air intake kits from K&N or RKSport. I think BBK and SLP may also may have something you can use. K&N and Accel both offer gauze filters. You can also add synthetic oil - that's one of the minor tweaks that is not all hype.
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Thanks Slanter...appreciated the information. Glad I didn't waste the money on the Turbonator.
M
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slanter
No confusion here, blueskip. The "Turbonator" is not an electronic supercharger at all. Here's how they describe it on their own web page: "The Turbonator™ is a non-moving vortex generator that goes inside your air intake hose, right after your air filter. It is made entirely from stainless steel." Pretty much exactly the same thing as the Tornado, although some of the Tornados I've seen appear to be galvanized steel instead of stainless.
As for your MPG increase. The Tornado, as I have said before, is likely to restrict the intake. That's like having a throttle that won't open all the way. Depending on how you drive, I can see that increasing the mileage. But it's not through more efficiency - I'm pretty certain the increase is because your engine cannot draw in as much air with the Tornado jamming things up.
Hey slanter this is uneed2know, I joined this forum just to tell you that you have no idea what you are talking about. First off if your motor doesn't take in enough air then there isn't the right air-to-gas ratio which would result in less power all together. Second off my father and three of his friends own six car shops around the U.S. and every one of them have a dynamometer (which is a dyno just so you know). They have done test with all the air intake products but we are just talking about the turbonator. They tested four different suv's (tahoe, navigator, pathfinder, and a jeep grand cherokee). Five sports car's(civic si, rx 8, toyota supra, ss camero, and a subaru sti). And two trucks (ss silverado, and a srt-10). And as you can see there is a variety of cars ranging from four cylinders, rotary engines, inline and v6 motors, turbo motors, v8's and v10's. However i'm here to tell the people that said they didn't work like yourself that they were wrong, way wrong. The suv's had the lowest stats due to weight and the tunning of the motor. On average the suv's gained 8-12 bhp, and an increase of 20-30 mpg per tank. The sports car's had the best increase, the bhp on average was 28-33 gain, and had a 60-85 mpg increase. The ss silverado had 27 bhp increase and a 50 mpg increase per tank and the srt-10 had a 24 bhp increase and a 35 mpg increase per tank. Now did you just think the people that made these products would waste there time getting pattens and the rights to sale there product would just make some stats up. So before you act like you know what your talking about you should keep you ideas to yourself until futher notice. And for anyone else who wants to find out more stats about cars just hit me up and ill let you know.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blueskip
I think first of all your both talking about apples and oranges. One of you is talking about something along the lines of an (electric) esupercharger or turbonator and the other is talking about a tornado fuel saver (non electric).
I can't speak for the turbonator but I can attest that the tornado DOES work on a '99 Ford Contour but again as it has been said time and time again it is SLIGHT. I drive 92 miles one way to work so even a slight difference is noticeable on my huge gas bill. It saved me about what is said which was roughly 10% increase in gas mileage. Ok that's only a whopping 3 mpg but it is there all the same and I'm absolutely positive. My car will get on average an extra 30-40 miles on a fill up now. This isn't a lot for most people but since I drive so much it adds up rather quickly and anyone that fills up every two days at todays gas prices will notice the number of miles before their car runs out of gas in a short time. The car is a little more perky in the 30-70 mph range too. I'm not spending money to dyno test it. I don't care about the hp gain if any. I do care it does save gas and I can pretty much conclude it saves gas by increasing hp without changing anything except efficiency. (So I'm pretty sure they're not lying about hp increases.)
I plan on buying a turbonator soon to see if it helps further with my mpg. I don't trust the plasic blades on it though being exposed to my intake so I have to resolve that problem before I'll attempt to install it though. Maybe some sort of custom filter setup.
what up blueskip this is uneed2know, i just want to say don't linsten to slanter until he has some credible information like what i have supplied to him in another reply. the turbonator is a good investment but ill give you a couple more that are cheap and will increase your bhp a lot. first if you have stock intake you should get short ram air intake which adds 8-12 bhp (this will also increase the effectiveness of the turbonator), then you get a sportchip which fools your motor into thinking it has cold air intake and it adds up to 20+ bhp (and it has no harmful effects), and you can get it on ebay real cheap. now they have an electric turbo which adds 2 psi and 20-40 bhp and it also helps the turbonator. just so you know i have a civic si with everything i said plus a greddy turbo and an exhaust turbo which is new plus it is all built and has a little over 430 bhp but i haven't got my turbo upgrade yet so there is still some more power coming.just let me know what you think and hit back.
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´hi uneed2know...
think you on to something right there.. but will a tornado filter work with a k&n??
mav
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaV
?hi uneed2know...
think you on to something right there.. but will a tornado filter work with a k&n??
mav
i couldn't send this back throught the mail you sent so here is the answer to you questions.
hey what up mav this is uneed2know, to my knowledge the turbonator will on any car so i would suggest that you to get one, also k&n it would be a good idea too, the kit souldn't case a problem. so give it a try and i think you will like the gian of bhp
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Turbonatur
Uneed2Know,
Thanks for your post. I was looking into the turbonatur for my Gsr. Seeing that you have an SI and are pleased with it, I will definately look in to buying one. I have a cold air intake on right now, so this turbonatur should work well with it right? How much would you estimate the power gains with the cold air and the turbonatur combined? I'd also love to hear some other cheap power gain options if you could suggest some. Thanks man
GSR2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uneed2know
Hey slanter this is uneed2know, I joined this forum just to tell you that you have no idea what you are talking about. First off if your motor doesn't take in enough air then there isn't the right air-to-gas ratio which would result in less power all together.
Hello uneed2know. Are you familiar with how fuel injection systems work? Most of them use a mass air flow sensor. This is a device that measures the amount of air flowing into the engine. If anything reduced this amount of flow, the computer can detect this and adjust the fuel injectors to compensate. Some cars use a somewhat less direct method called a manifold absolute pressure sensor, but the end result is the same. The computer can detect if the engine is drawing in less air, and adjusts the air/fuel ratio to compensate.
Quote:
Second off my father and three of his friends own six car shops around the U.S. and every one of them have a dynamometer (which is a dyno just so you know)....
...However i'm here to tell the people that said they didn't work like yourself that they were wrong, way wrong. The suv's had the lowest stats due to weight and the tunning of the motor. On average the suv's gained 8-12 bhp, and an increase of 20-30 mpg per tank. The sports car's had the best increase, the bhp on average was 28-33 gain, and had a 60-85 mpg increase. The ss silverado had 27 bhp increase and a 50 mpg increase per tank and the srt-10 had a 24 bhp increase and a 35 mpg increase per tank
Call me skeptical. Very skeptical. You are claiming that a sports car gained more than 85 mpg? That they managed to get an SUV to get well in excess of 40 miles to the gallon? That a part which retails for $69.95 boosted a car's mileage by more than the total mpg of a Honda Insight? Reality check: Look at how much attention the hybrid cars have gathered. If a part like this could bring the mpg on a normal car into that level, believe me, it would be standard equipment on every car today.
I challenge you to prove this claim. It is patently absurd. There is one very easy way you can demonstrate that this is real: Post the address and phone number of all six of the dyno shops who have conducted these tests. This way, any member of the forum who is reading this thread can call these shops, inquire about their credentials, and ask these shops for themselves. Remember, you stated there are six of these shops, so I would prefer you the contact information for all of them. If you cannot post these, it is plain that you are a liar.
Quote:
now they have an electric turbo which adds 2 psi and 20-40 bhp and it also helps the turbonator. just so you know i have a civic si with everything i said plus a greddy turbo and an exhaust turbo which is new plus it is all built and has a little over 430 bhp but i haven't got my turbo upgrade yet so there is still some more power coming.just let me know what you think and hit back.
I do not believe in your 430 hp Civic, either. Let's see you prove this one, too. Post a picture of your Civic's engine compartment, with the electric turbo, Greddy turbo, and the "exhaust turbo" all installed.
I do not believe that you can prove anything you have said. I will go over your claims about 20 hp from splicing a resistor into your IAT sensor circuit and the other ebay products you are promoting later. But I thought I would give you a sporting chance first.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uneed2know
what up blueskip this is uneed2know, i just want to say don't linsten to slanter until he has some credible information like what i have supplied to him in another reply. the turbonator is a good investment but ill give you a couple more that are cheap and will increase your bhp a lot. first if you have stock intake you should get short ram air intake which adds 8-12 bhp (this will also increase the effectiveness of the turbonator), then you get a sportchip which fools your motor into thinking it has cold air intake and it adds up to 20+ bhp (and it has no harmful effects), and you can get it on ebay real cheap. now they have an electric turbo which adds 2 psi and 20-40 bhp and it also helps the turbonator. just so you know i have a civic si with everything i said plus a greddy turbo and an exhaust turbo which is new plus it is all built and has a little over 430 bhp but i haven't got my turbo upgrade yet so there is still some more power coming.just let me know what you think and hit back.
I really can't believe what I'm reading. Is this a joke uneed2know or you are serious? 12hp increase on a civic with a short ram intake? 20hp with the little radioshack resistance, sold as a "chip"? And the electric fan crap thing inside the intake tubing will give 20-40hp? Man, if it's a joke, that's ok, it's a good one. But if you're serious, please buy a good review (like SCC) with some real dyno test. Ebay sellers put incredibly high hp gain on basic mods, don't believe that crap.
Want to save on gas? Do good tuneup, check gas filter, air filter, spark plugs, timing, tire pressure, don't carry heavy things you don't need.
If you don't have the money for a good tuneup, it's because you don't have money to spend on a turbonator, funny fuel magnet or anything like that. Keep your money away from those things.
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uneed2know your kidding right? With a properly designed airbox and a clean stock filter your engine should be getting more then enough air. Usually all a K&N does is blow your MAF sensor. I wouldn't be surprised if the turbonator has a lawsuit against it as well, hmm maybe I need to dig a bit.
If it really worked well the OE's that spend billions in R&D would be all over it. Come on Honda probably spent over a million dollars and thousands of hours worth of testing to get the air filter set up affective on the Civic. If they could gain 3mpg's by putting a stupid peace of sheet metal in the intake don't you think they would have done that? These days with the Civic mpg's are a selling point an extra 3mpg's could mean millions in profits to Honda Motor corp.
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Hi Uneed2know.. thanks for the update.. but what product should I then choose..? There is eg. turbonator, spiralmax and allot of others too.. but what product?
What was used in the tests of the cars, using a turbo thingy, at the 6 car shops.. (they obviesley gave results..)
mav
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Astroturfed!
Lol you guys, it's pretty obvious that "uneed2know", "MaV" and "Gsr2000" are the same person and/or work for the same company, and you can guess what company that is. They all have the same weak grammar, all joined at the same time, etc.
As if slanter's arguments weren't damning enough already, the company is astroturfing in chat boards to try to sell its product. This is the evidence I need to know not only that the product doesn't work AT ALL but that the company is fully aware of it. That's just sad.
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all we need is a moderator to turn on IP logging and we would know right away if they were from the same company (or network)
I to had consider these items for my Jetta but after a short 10 minute search of forums found on Google I found it to be a likely to really bad investment.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Misfit
all we need is a moderator to turn on IP logging and we would know right away if they were from the same company (or network)
They don't appear from the same IP range. But that doesn't mean much these days. ;)
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Want to look for an electric supercharger test? Look at this guy from homemadeturbo.com, I was rolling on the floor, too funny when he swing the baseball bat in it. I wish you'll have fun!
http://www.homemadeturbo.com/tech_projects/el_blower/
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DAMN..! I'm from denmark( therefore the week grammer) and I was look'n for cheep was to boost my peugeot 306 xsi 2,0 1995. I was checking a danish race site, www.gaderace.dk and saw a ad for www.turbonator.com. I ask all over the net about it, and nobody knew ****, so I searched worldwide and car review popped up. So I sign up and join the disscusion.. know I'm not a mecanic or got experience with engines, so thats wy I seek help else where.. But I dont know any of you rats and just wanna f*ck'n modify my car!!
MaV
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Don't Assume
Pantysniffer, hopefully you know more about cars than you do about astroturfing. Go ahead, check my IP adress, I bet you my car I have no idea who anyone in this forum is, and I sure as hell would not work for a company like that. I have heard these claims that the turbonatur makes, and wanted some feedback, that's why I joined the boards. Odds are everyone in here that has doubted the turbonatur has never tried it. I admit the claims do sound outrageuos, and I would never expect to get 30 horses for $70, but even if it gave me 2 HP it would be worth it. I spent $300 to get 2HP from headers, so i would hardly call that a waste for $70. And if it doesn't work, I send the **** back and get my money refunded. Sometimes you just have to try things out for yourself instead of assuming things, which you have proven to be good at. Thanks for showing how intelligent you are.
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Only moderators can check the IP addresses. As CT said, these thee (MaV, uneed2know, and gsr2000) all come from different IP addresses. And MaV's IP address does indicate that it is from a .DK domain. I am quite willing to believe that these people are all different individuals.
On the other hand, I am still conviced uneed2know is lying about the dyno shops. He really got greedy there claiming an 80 mpg increase and all, not to mention making up a 430 hp Civic with a very unlikely combination of mods. If you're reading this, uneed2know, let's see you try proving this. But I suspect he's run off with his tail between his legs. He knows his credibility is ruined if he can't produce the contact information for his fictitious shops.
It is true that I have never tried the Turbonator. I have also never tried to get more horsepower by putting a lucky horseshoe in my air cleaner. When you have a part that (1) would need to defy the laws of physics to work as claimed, (2) never shows up on race cars where they spend thousands for just one more horsepower, and (3) has been dyno tested by several reputable magazines such as Sport Compact Car and found not to work, I don't really plan on trying it myself. Unless I'm planning to write a book about separating worthless cheap mods from ones that actually work, in which case I would probably get one so I could have a real dyno graph.
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Aem V2
Hey Slanter, have you heard anything about the new aem v2 intake? I have heard good things about it, but don't know anyone who has tried it. I have an aem cold air on my integra and have loved it. I just don't know if spending another $280 on an intake would be worth it. Is it really that much better than previous aem models?
GSR2000
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Same as you, AEM CAI first version on my Civic, since one year now and I'm very satisfied with it. Wondering if the V2 can bring a noticeable gain.
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thank you slanter
Well.. I'm convinced of what concerns the turbonator. ;)
But it gave me toughts of a direct air pathway through alu flex tubes.. I put a alu flex tube,(Ř 100mm.) starting at the bottom of the front bumper and then going up towards the air filter and ending right in front of it. The tube is curved so it "scoops" in air when driving! And it works. I know this because I have a inside outside termomether(sorry about spelling) where the outside cord ends inside the K&n filter. And when driving the tempeture falls remarkingly.. and as soon as I stop after few seconds the temp. raises again.. :cool:
this is my engine:
http://catalog.dot-e.dk/billedmat/mo...mg/57-0055.jpg
Right in the gap between the cooler hose and the battery (lower right corner) thats where in drag the tube up..
mav
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what it is
hey whats up about the aem v2 intake it actually does give about a 3-4 extra bhp, my friend has a honda accord v6 and it realy is better, the sound definetly is different cause that how it works better. the dual sized chamber creates differing sound waves that increases air intake, and loweres air temp.
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No personal experience with the V2, but I've heard of the same principle being used in some headers. Given AEM's reputation, I am pretty sure they've done a fair amount of dyno testing with this part, but I'm not sure how it compares to others.
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turbonator is good
I have an old Camaro Z28, with a stock 5.0 w/ 4 barrel carb. I installed the turbonator and noticed a slight increase in power, and I think it saves some gas. This car GUZZLES gas, and it seems like the fuel lasts longer, and I'm going to the gas station a little less. I was worried about it breaking, and pieces falling into the carbeurator, but the pieces that are spot welded together seem to big to fit into the primary or secondaries. If one was so inclined, and really wanted to save money, you can measure the diameter of where you are supposed to put it, on the carb or in the intake. Go to the Home Depot, and MAKE onewith a little Burnzamatic! As a former plumber, I have torches and solder. If I had seen it first, I would have made my own, and saved about $50!!
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Ok I joined this forum just to respond to this post, I dont know anyone else here, nore do i have any vested interest in any of the products in discussion. I am an ASE certified technician, and have worked for several performance shops. The following are not opinions, they are observations from my experience.
1 - As a side note - I think some of you guys are using the mpg when you mean miles per tank.
2 - Since performance intakes/filters have been brought up in the discussion of these "tornado" type things, lets compare the two. Everyone knows that the added mileage/performance from an aftermarket filter/intake comes from opening up airflow. Thats pretty much universally agreed upon. In fact, one of the reasons K+N intakes are so expensive, is that they are often much straighter than the stock ones - allowing the air to turn LESS and build up more speed - yeilding more power. So how can anyone of you contend that something that then restricts the airflow, and forces air to change direction is going to have the same effect?
3 - These products claim that they cause a "swirling effect" in the air, which lets it burn better when ignited with the fuel mixture. Have you ever looked at the inside of a throttle body? Its a tube, with a big, flat metal plate running down the middle. There is no way any "swirling" of the air is going to have a lasting effect after that.
4 - Lets talk tubos. Ive had 5 turbocharged cars in my short life, each with loads of aftermaket parts. For those of you who arent aware, generally the turbo forces air into this big thing called an intercooler (like a big radiator filled with air). The intercooler is pressurized. i.e. even if that "swirl" made it through the turbo, it would be totally lost when the air was pressurized in the intercooler!! And then it would have to pass over the throttle body - as we discussed a moment ago.
5 - Modification of ANY sensor in the car by just smacking in a resistor is just f***ing stupid. Those sensors are there to make sure the right amount of fuel gets in to burn with the air (as previously stated by one of the few people in here who seems to knwo whats going on). Running too lean causes, knock, detination, pre-ignition, and just outright destroys engines!! Ask anyone who knows performance - they'll tell you, running leaner gives you more power, but it is a dangerous game. Most high performance engines run 13:1 air to fuel ratio (14.7:1 = stoich = not lean or rich) or less (less =more fuel per air = richer)!! I urge you not to take this risk with your cars.
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The whole idea is with the Turbonator, Tornado, or similar product, you can install one in your car WITHOUT altering any sensors, or anything. :D It is generally safer than 'amateur modifying' and the like. I am no mechanic, but I know a little more than 'Joe Shmoe'. Before I got the Turbonator, I spoke to my mechanic about it. I have a very good relationship with those guys, and have been frequenting their establishment for years. They told me results will vary car to car, as some cars are maintained better and run better than others. You might see a small difference, if none at all, and let us know your results. I've been driving my Z28 for years, and I know the way the car runs by now. I believe the product works. As I said before the difference is small, but it seems I was putting gas in my car a little less often than usual. When you drive one car for so long you get used to putting gas in say, evry 8 days or something like that. Any good difference, you will notice it. I didn't actually compute miles per gallon, or miles to tank or anything. Then again, if your car has bad blow-by, a worn out engine, combustion problems, bad timing, missing, or the like, it doesn't matter what you put in it, it's not going to work. The whole concept of the thing, is an easy, inexpensive way to slightly improve performance and gas mileage. And we all know, gas is FREAKIN' EXPENSIVE!! Find a local auto store that sells them (there is one 5 min. from me that does), save the box and if it doesn't work, bring it back!! It is not a miracle product. If your car has been decently maintained, and runs fairly well with know obvious engine trouble, I recommend the product to you all. If you have a late model BMW, or an Audi A8 or something like that, obviously, you don't need products like that. I think they are made with the older car in mind. Like I said, find a store that sells it, if it doesn't work for you, just bring it back. And no, I don't work for any of the companies that produces these products!!!!!!
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JediKnight,
Have you tried any real testing of this thing? Dyno results would be great, but I'd settle for just taking it to the dragstrip and making several runs with the Turbonator and several runs without it. See if your times, or more importantly, your trap speeds improve. That way you'll have some real numbers to post instead of just claiming it feels better.
Also, gas mileage can depend on a lot of things, some of which have little to do with the setup of the car. I pay attention to how many miles I've put on my car when I fill up my tank. On my Focus, the mileage has gone anywhere from 27 to 33 miles per gallon. Quite a wide spread even though I haven't made any tweaks to the car. If you want to prove it saves gas, you're going to need some well controlled testing. Otherwise you can't prove that the increase was purely due to your driving habbits. And you haven't even measured your miles to the gallon. With no measurements, you haven't proved anything.
One other note. Carbureted engines may react to this a little differently from injected engines. The Turbonator is a big piece of sheet metal that goes just upstream of the carburetor and restricts your airflow. What else fits that description? The choke! That's right, driving with the Turbonator is like driving with your choke partially on. This means that it can make the car run slightly richer, depending on how restrictive the thing is. So in a way, it is like the mechanical equivalent of fooling a sensor. But if you want your carbureted engine to run richer, it's better to do things right and replace your jets.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slanter
On the other hand, I am still conviced uneed2know is lying about the dyno shops. He really got greedy there claiming an 80 mpg increase and all, not to mention making up a 430 hp Civic with a very unlikely combination of mods. If you're reading this, uneed2know, let's see you try proving this. But I suspect he's run off with his tail between his legs. He knows his credibility is ruined if he can't produce the contact information for his fictitious shops.
It is true that I have never tried the Turbonator. I have also never tried to get more horsepower by putting a lucky horseshoe in my air cleaner. When you have a part that (1) would need to defy the laws of physics to work as claimed, (2) never shows up on race cars where they spend thousands for just one more horsepower, and (3) has been dyno tested by several reputable magazines such as Sport Compact Car and found not to work, I don't really plan on trying it myself. Unless I'm planning to write a book about separating worthless cheap mods from ones that actually work, in which case I would probably get one so I could have a real dyno graph.
I think he was saying the total mileage increase for the tankful? I know I sure wouldn't expend the time and money to perform tests on so many vehicles without compensation.
The device does not defy the laws of physics. Please explain. It is possible to increase airflow by actually reducing the cross section of the intake area (the venturi effect in a carburetor for example). The evolution of hood scoops demonstrates this. Compare today's Pro Stock to say 10 years ago.
Cylinder heads as well. It's not all about flow either; the combustion chamber design plays a big role in volumetric efficiency and the burn. That is one reason a typical modern Corvette can attain 25 mpg yet still make very respectable power, whereas one from 30 years ago sucked the gas and had lackluster performance. I think it's quite amazing how much power today's engines are putting out.
I will say up front generally I don't go by what magazines report or even EPA. Depending on the motives, a simple test and statistic can be anything you want the outcome to be.
There's been much controversy surrounding the Tornado and other similar devices, so I decided to buy one myself and test it. It is true that most 'mileage enhancers' don't work as advertised, but some do. I personally doubt this one works as claimed, but I'll find out.
I drag raced for many years, but hung up the keys in 2001. Now I'm bored so instead of squeezing as much power as I can without regard to fuel mileage, getting as much MPG out of an engine is now my hobby.
The test vehicle I will be using is a 2003 Dodge Durango with a 4.7L engine. Currently I'm comparing the E3 spark plug to OEM. No, I won't bother going to the strip.
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I have removed the turbonator and filled up the car with gas. Once the tank is empty and the mileage recorded, I will fill it up again, install it again and record the mileage when it's empty again. This page is for posting opinions on the product, and I thought my opinion would be helpful. Apparently not. I thought that was all this was started for in the first place. SLANTER: Do you actually expect people to go to the extent of putting cars on a dynamometer to test this thing?! If you don't own a shop or have a good friend that does, you're out of luck. I have GREAT mechanics who I really trust, but time is money and I'd have to probably pay them for clogging up one of their Bays for testing this thing. Or go to a strip and clock times? Maybe you should go call the Discovery Channel or log on to their website and get 'MythBusters' to test it. What do you expect people to do? Most people do not have the time or resources to do extensive testing on this thing. I'm merely stating my opinion which is based on the facts of my experience with it- it will SLIGHTLY improve performance and save a little bit of gas. Also, it won't obstruct air because it is vented with little holes, or slots. I don't think it is obtrusive enough to restrict air flow. If it did that I believe my car would be running so awfully, I would have to remove it. I will post my gas results within 14-20 days, as it will take time for me to use up two full tanks of gas. By that time, maybe this thread won't even exist??!
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So, Uneed2know, you work for Turbonator? That product and all like it are next to trash and do virtually nothing for a car. Thankfully they offer a 30-day money back guarantee, that's a plus.
Quote:
Originally Posted by uneed2know
Hey slanter this is uneed2know, I joined this forum just to tell you that you have no idea what you are talking about. First off if your motor doesn't take in enough air then there isn't the right air-to-gas ratio which would result in less power all together. Second off my father and three of his friends own six car shops around the U.S. and every one of them have a dynamometer (which is a dyno just so you know). They have done test with all the air intake products but we are just talking about the turbonator. They tested four different suv's (tahoe, navigator, pathfinder, and a jeep grand cherokee). Five sports car's(civic si, rx 8, toyota supra, ss camero, and a subaru sti). And two trucks (ss silverado, and a srt-10). And as you can see there is a variety of cars ranging from four cylinders, rotary engines, inline and v6 motors, turbo motors, v8's and v10's. However i'm here to tell the people that said they didn't work like yourself that they were wrong, way wrong. The suv's had the lowest stats due to weight and the tunning of the motor. On average the suv's gained 8-12 bhp, and an increase of 20-30 mpg per tank. The sports car's had the best increase, the bhp on average was 28-33 gain, and had a 60-85 mpg increase. The ss silverado had 27 bhp increase and a 50 mpg increase per tank and the srt-10 had a 24 bhp increase and a 35 mpg increase per tank. Now did you just think the people that made these products would waste there time getting pattens and the rights to sale there product would just make some stats up. So before you act like you know what your talking about you should keep you ideas to yourself until futher notice. And for anyone else who wants to find out more stats about cars just hit me up and ill let you know.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glider
The device does not defy the laws of physics. Please explain. It is possible to increase airflow by actually reducing the cross section of the intake area (the venturi effect in a carburetor for example). The evolution of hood scoops demonstrates this. Compare today's Pro Stock to say 10 years ago
Sure, I'd be glad to explain.
First, keep in mind that air speed (measured in feet per minute, miles per hour, or what have you) is not the same as total airflow (measured in cubic feet per minute, if you're not using the metric system). A venturi increases air speed, but it doesn't increase the flow rate. The ones on a carburetor are not designed to increase the airflow, but to create a pressure drop so that the carburetor can meter fuel. A carb would actually flow better if you drilled out the venturis, but it wouldn't actually work as a carburetor if you did that.
The Turbonator on most installations is designed to sit in a straight section of intake pipe. They claim it makes the air flow through the pipe more efficiently. Now, here is a simple way to demonstrate that you cannot improve flow through a pipe by sticking anything in it. In physics, this would be called a thought experiment.
Suppose you had a horizontal length of pipe just wide enough to slip a Turbonator into, where it can slide loosely. Or any other solid piece of metal, for that matter. And suppose the pipe is hooked up to a blower. Now imagine that you stick the Turbonator into the pipe and let go of it. Now turn on the blower. What happens?
The Turbonator gets blown out of the pipe. Right?
Now repeat this, only holding the Turbonator in place. You would feel it pushing back against your fingers. That means that the air is exerting a force on the Turbonator, trying to push it out of the pipe. Newton's Third Law of Motion states that for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. This means that if the air is pushing back on the Turbonator, then the Turbonator must be pushing forward on the air. Pushing the air in an upstream direction.
So, we have established that the Turbonator must apply a force to the incoming air. And at least a part of this force is directed in a way that pushes against the direction in which the air is moving. Therefore, the force that the Turbonator applies to the incoming air must work in such a manner as to slow the air down.
The conclusion is that any non-moving part stuck in a cylindrical tube must be partially obstructing the airflow.
You are correct, however, in stating that there are cases where a part with a small cross sectional area can flow better than one with a large one. Usually this is something like a cylinder head port or other part with a complex shape where the air cannot flow through the entire cross-section. In these cases, a badly designed part may only have the air flowing through a small amount of its cross section.
Good luck in your test. As I noted earlier, it may be possible in some cases for the thing to act like a partially closed throttle and possibly save some gas at the expense of power. Keep us posted, Glider.
For JediKnight and others, here's why I'm asking for dyno tests or drag tests. If you claim it is giving you more power, you should demonstrate that. If you say it makes more power, it is up to you to show that it actually does make more power. So if you want to demonstrate that, the best way is to make a measurement that you can share.
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OK. I have ran one full tank of gas, and have recorded 163 miles to the tank. I have re-installed the turbonator, re-filled the tank, and will post the mileage results. As for the power increase, this I will have some difficulty with. But first and foremost, I will focus on 'miles to tank', because my car has no fuel computer. I will post my results with said product when I have ran through another tank of gas. This will probably take 7-10 days.
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